JC Political Thread - For All Things Political Part 2

[c2105026]

Well, comments aired from some pundits here suggest a complete lack of empathy or understanding. I am not assuming a lack of understanding - the proof is in the pudding....

Some on the right are socially conservative but greatly concerned about the plight of the welfare 'class', i.e. churches for example.

 

[Reaper]

Well, comments aired from some pundits here suggest a complete lack of empathy or understanding. I am not assuming a lack of understanding - the proof is in the pudding....

Some on the right are socially conservative but greatly concerned about the plight of the welfare 'class', i.e. churches for example.

I presume I'm one of the people you aim the above comments at?? Either way, you completely miss the point. It's similar to the boat people crap. In some circumstances the warm and fuzzy lets not offend anybody blah blah approach just doesn't work. Like the people arriving without visas on boats, this is a situation where a hard arse attitude is called for. Sure as hell the gently gently approach hasn't worked.

Do I sympathise with their position? Yep. Am I prepared to pay people who clearly have no intention in helping them selves? No. Complete lack of empathy or understanding is the group who say there should be no dole what so ever or the likes of the Tea Party opposing universal health care in USA who I just don't understand what so ever and think they are as coo coo as the greens are here in Aus.

 

[c2105026]

Ok perhaps not a 'complete' lack of understanding but is arguably significant.......I would still say that if you were in an asylum seeker type situation you would have a different perspective.

Same with the unemployment situation. rather than just piss and moan that some people refuse to work and want handouts, ask 'why'?. It could be a family/culture intergenerational thing, as discussed earlier, and this may be the easiest problem to solve via proposed incentive plan. But, some may have physical/mental problems which mean they cannot function in a workplace, but don't qualify for disability either. Maybe their area has limited opportunities, and they cannot move because they care for an in-firmed relative in an unofficial capacity. Who knows. There are many, many different potential reasons why people wind up on the dole for prolonged periods. However, just because you have a particular perspective on how to approach life with a unique set of values, it doesn't mean everyone else does, nor should they. You may have learnt to act in your best interests, but some people never do.

If everybody acted in their best interests there would be no crime, workplace accidents, suicide, bankruptcy, obesity, addiction, road crashes, smoking, binge drinking, coward-punching, and so forth. It is obvious we a country of 23 million imperfect people.

 

[Calaber]

Well, comments aired from some pundits here suggest a complete lack of empathy or understanding. I am not assuming a lack of understanding - the proof is in the pudding....

Some on the right are socially conservative but greatly concerned about the plight of the welfare 'class', i.e. churches for example.

Does this then suggest that conservatives are less humane, less caring, more selfish, and those of the left side more compassionate and sympathetic?

I wouldn't agree with that view, but it seems to be what you are suggesting. Certainly, there are members here who are quite outspoken against the unemployed, but I think their anger is directed at those who WISH to be unemployed, not those who are for legitimate reasons.

The same questions can be applied, for example, to asylum seekers. The left says "let them in, understand what they have suffered." The right says "they are breaking our laws, entering illegally, many are not true refugees escaping persecution". I would suggest that the right, on this issue at least, are more pragmatic than the left.

 

[c2105026]

Therein lies the issue. How many long term unemployed wish to be that way? Are we talking consciously or sub-consciously? Someone may want to find work, and openly state this, but subconsciously they have a fear of success (or something similar) so they self-sabotage their efforts. Conversely someone may openly be a dole slacker, but deep down they want to work, but don't know the best way to go about it, and are too afraid to find help. These are but two examples. Long term unemployed persons are certainly not the same, and to stereotype them would be just as nonsensical as it would be to stereotype JC users.

Across the political spectrum yes it would seem that the left does take a more compassionate approach (if only at a party level). However, at a more personal level, it varies; will use charities to explain. I am involved with a children's cancer charity; many, many right wingers help out there as camp companions, with fundraising etc. and such work would require at least some compassion. Some basically give their left (or right? lol) nut to help out. Then again if offered to help out with Amnesty International, the same people might run the other way. Some lefties I know help out charities, some don't. Having been in a few service clubs I can say that in the service club sector there is a significant bias towards the right there in terms of make up (older wealthier businessmen....). Then again are they helping charities to be genuinely helpful or to big note themselves and have a 'good time'? It all comes down to what one perceives as a 'good cause', and why one specifically supports it.

EDIT: I will add there are some lefties who oddly enough are lacking in compassion. On the more extreme side, some see the rich as simply a cash-cow and want the rich taxed to oblivion. I don't support this. Some have even called for revolution to overthrow Abbott, and/or his assassination. I don't support this either, obviously. Some leftist politicians will also play on the humane angle purely for political gain, unfortunately.

BTW: 'They are breaking our laws, entering illegally' - AFAIK it is not illegal to seek asylum in Australia, with or without a visa, regardless of mode of transport.

 

[Reaper]

Ok perhaps not a 'complete' lack of understanding but is arguably significant.......I would still say that if you were in an asylum seeker type situation you would have a different perspective.

Same with the unemployment situation. rather than just piss and moan that some people refuse to work and want handouts, ask 'why'?.

TBH I don't give a rats arse why beyond getting the problem resolved. Everybody will have an excuse "why". Same as there are guys I employ that are habitually late. Every day I ask for an explaination and every day they give one that sounds plausible. The only thing is - there are so many instances of different excuses that I'd go so far as to say 3/4 or more are just bs. The root of the cause is the employee didn't leave enough time to get to work punctually. Same same for long term unemployed - root cause - too lazy to either find a job, or think that a position they are offered is somehow beneath them or too much work etc etc etc.

If everybody acted in their best interests there would be no crime, workplace accidents, suicide, bankruptcy, obesity, addiction, road crashes, smoking, binge drinking, coward-punching, and so forth. It is obvious we a country of 23 million imperfect people.

I'm not talking about fixing every problem in the world but in this discussion we can at least make a dent in 1.

Therein lies the issue. How many long term unemployed wish to be that way? Are we talking consciously or sub-consciously? Someone may want to find work, and openly state this, but subconsciously they have a fear of success (or something similar) so they self-sabotage their efforts. Conversely someone may openly be a dole slacker, but deep down they want to work, but don't know the best way to go about it, and are too afraid to find help. These are but two examples. Long term unemployed persons are certainly not the same, and to stereotype them would be just as nonsensical as it would be to stereotype JC users.

Oh ####ing toughen up. All this namby pamby excuse finding that goes on these days shits me to tears. Take away the excuses and just get the job done.

 

[c2105026]

The root of the cause is the employee didn't leave enough time to get to work punctually. Same same for long term unemployed - root cause - too lazy to either find a job, or think that a position they are offered is somehow beneath them or too much work etc etc etc.

Very well if this is your argument do you have a link to a report/survey or whatever to validate this view?

Oh ####ing toughen up. All this namby pamby excuse finding that goes on these days shits me to tears. Take away the excuses and just get the job done.

are you consciously irritated, or simply sub-consciously irritated? LOL JK......

 

[Reaper]

Very well if this is your argument do you have a link to a report/survey or whatever to validate this view?

Yeah - it's infallible - survey of (not so) common sense.

 

[c2105026]

So, that is a no? Very well then. Noted.

 

[Calaber]

BTW: 'They are breaking our laws, entering illegally' - AFAIK it is not illegal to seek asylum in Australia, with or without a visa, regardless of mode of transport.

I could accept this view, if not for the fact that so many of them dump their passports and identity documentation before being "intercepted".

Why?