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Low Speed Tolerance Could Increase Crashes - Study

Discussion in 'The Pub' started by immortality, Jan 9, 2017.

  1. immortality

    immortality Moderator Staff Member

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    http://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/natio...rashes-study/ar-BBy2Lp1?li=BBqdg4K&ocid=wispr

    An actual study, properly conducted and peer reviewed to suggest low tolerance speed enforcement actually increases the likely hood of accidents. Who would have thought.... :rolleyes:

    It's time the cops get with the times and give up on the revenue gathering and start concentrating on the real reasons the road toll is going up.

    BTW, for any cops reading this, if you care to spend some time at any major intersection in NZ I'm sure you'll be able to hand out more than enough tickets for red light running you would easily reach your quotas, improve traffic flows,save lives and reduce accident numbers!!!!!
     
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  2. the_boozer

    the_boozer no more VK

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    Its been known for years safety cameras are about revenue because the government can't do anything else but tax and fine the people.
     
  3. lmoengnr

    lmoengnr Active Member

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    Same here in Aus, too many drivers constantly looking at their speedo's, and not watching the road....
     
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  4. gossie

    gossie Active Member

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    And the faster you drive, the more you concentrate.
     
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  5. lmoengnr

    lmoengnr Active Member

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    Road Safety Cameras.......

    What do they really have to do with 'safety', when you receive notification 2 weeks after the event...
     
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  6. immortality

    immortality Moderator Staff Member

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    Exactly, if they were truly interesting in reducing speeding, accidents and road deaths all units would be highly visible so people can see and reduce their speeds accordingly. Hiding a speed camera at a accident black spot does nothing to slow people down. I actually think it's worse, when/if people actually spot said hidden camera there first response is most likely to slam on the anchors and we all know what happens when people brake hard abruptly (for apparently no reason for those following behind who haven't yet seen said hidden speed camera)......

    Hell, lets just say that police are now actively contributing to the death toll each year.....
     
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  7. Towcar

    Towcar Active Member

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    I call bull shit on this, it is an old excuse that I have heard endlessly.

    Besides which at a slower speed you have more time to avoid the dickhead that just pulled out on you.

    While I don't disagree with what is said about reducing the tolerance and the cops needing to actually pull people up for dangerous driving through intersections, cutting corners, dangerous overtaking regurgitating the same old, but I'm a good driver, I concentrate better when I am speeding argument is simply crap, and if it is the case grow the fuck up and pay attention at what ever speed you are doing.
     
  8. DavidPartay

    DavidPartay somewhat awesome

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    My attention to the road becomes significantly worse during double demerits, because I spend so much time staring at the speedo instead of the road. And I know I do it, but I instinctively can't help it. It's even worse on the motorbike because I have to look down to see the speedo, and it's harder to maintain a constant speed on the bike. So I can honestly say that double demerits and stricter enforcement actually makes me a more dangerous driver because I'm more concerned about my speed than paying attention to the road. I am fully conscious of it and it drives me insane.
     
  9. acarmody

    acarmody Donati..Whoa Green

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    1. Cops don't make any of the road rules, or get to choose the speed tolerances, or any of that crap. They are just the people that have to do the dirty work that the Government tells them to do. Don't like what they do? Go complain to your local member.

    2. I call bullshit on too many drivers constantly watching their speedo. Most drivers I see aren't concentrating on their driving at all. But I do agree it is harder to do a quick check on a bike.
    When I am driving I have the capacity to maintain a fairly constant speed without looking at the speedo every 2 seconds, can others not?

    3. Also call bullshit on the whole, faster you go the more you concentrate. My attention doesn't change whether I am doing 60km/h or 100km/h. If you don't have the capacity to concentrate at slow speeds, then maybe you just can't drive.

    4. I don't like the argument that a visible police presence is a better deterrent that a semi hidden one. The cops can't be everywhere at one, there are so few of them to so many road users. The point of the semi-hidden traps is to catch and punish the idiots breaking the law, that's the deterrent, a fine and points. How easy do you think it is for cops to fine you for speeding if they are also moving and can't use pre-positioned calibrated equipment to get a true reading of the speed? In another lane, other side of road, can't pursue to pull over, if they did this more people will be bitching that cops are gueesing their speed and handing out fines.

    5. I agree with the part about people are getting real shocking with other things like red-light running. Seeing a huge spike in that recently. But every time I have seen someone run a red light, and there has been a cop car to witness it, they have pulled over the idiot. So its not like they are ignoring it.
     
  10. immortality

    immortality Moderator Staff Member

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    Maybe in Aussie, I have seen someone run a red with a cop car at said intersection and they didn't even notice. Fact is (here in NZ anyway), cops seem to ignore a lot of shit that happens every day. Don't see many cop cars out on the road these days, cop numbers have stagnated when the population has greatly increased so the reality is that the number of cops per capita has significantly dropped which means they are under resourced. The current National government has put a freeze on police funding now for a number of years which when you take into account inflation it means an actual reduction in the police budget.

    I call BS on hidden speed cameras, a ticket received in the mail a couple of weeks after doesn't do much really. A visual police presence works much better unfortunately it's not uncommon to see cops traveling well below the speed limit to try and bait people into speeding on our motorways yet I also see cops speeding on our suburban roads. Here in NZ a few years back the number of speeding tickets issued via speed cameras were dropping indicating that people were slowing down, the governments response, drop the tolerance to get the ticket take back up again. Ticketing those folks who are only a few Km/h over the limit does nothing for the road toll but does increase the money going into the government coffers.

    The fact that we have been running these low tolerance speed campaigns for a few years now and the fact that the road toll has actually increased clearly indicates that it's not working. Stats don't lie even with the obfuscation of the powers that be.

    It is a sad fact that what the cops/government are doing here in NZ isn't reducing the road toll, how long must you flog a dead horse to realize it's dead?
     
  11. Crowny

    Crowny Member

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    For my money a low speed tolerance does nothing for road safety. It's an extra thing to worry about rather than concentrating on the road and worrying about all the idiots out there. It would not surprised me if it could lead to an increase in crashes. Mind you I blame the politicians not the cops. I reckon they're trying to look like they're doing something rather than actually addressing real safety issues. They should start with getting serious about getting repeat offenders such as unlicensed drivers off the road. I think that also applies to repeat offenders for other criminal acts as well. I seem to be hearing a lot about someone being arrested and hearing that they are out on bail (eg Apex gang in Melbourne) or have a prior record. I wonder whether some in the courts perhaps need to lift their game as well.
     
  12. immortality

    immortality Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm fairly damn sure the low speeding tolerance thing was the cops rather than a political decision.

    Restricted drivers here in NZ have no limitations on what they can drive, testing and training is lacking in consistency.

    Fact is cops have been caught out with having ticket quotas, easiest way to get said quotas is speeding and other pathetic vehicle related infringements.

    There is a case here in NZ where a repeat drunk driver has requested one of those car alcohol lock testing things be fitted to his car as he wants to change his way yet the courts won't do it. IT seems to me the system is broke.

    TBH, if the politicians listened to the public and changed the laws on the use of dope then it would be amazing how much time the cops would have to spare on sorting out real issues.
     
  13. c2105026

    c2105026 Member

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    My view is that willful and negligent speeding does increase crash risk (coz physics) and as such should be targeted.
    You will often find a change in attitude in drivers after they get a ticket, they tend to take things easier for the next little bit if they've been a lunatic and just lost half their points with a big fine.

    However - I doubt the value of low level enforcement. The movement in road safety circles is based on a MUARC study in 1997 that showed an 11th power relationship between speed and crash risk. Now as an engineer and mathematician, I take issue with this - I debunked the report as part of a final year university assignment when I did civil engineering.

    Firstly the computer modelling used in the crash reconstruction was from the 70s - very archaic. It was American too. I dare say a typical 1970s American car would perform and crumple differently compared to a typical 90s Aussie car.

    Secondly - for every case (car crash that was investigated) only four control vehicle speeds were mentioned. To have any meaningful control data you should have 15, perhaps 40.

    Thirdly - all crash sites were treated the same. No consideration given to sight distance or road surface variations (i.e. spray seal versus hot mix). No consideration was given to individual driver skill or reaction time.

    Lastly - 68-71% of the crashes were ultimately caused by a vehicle that failed to yield right of way.

    When was the last campaign you saw about obeying lights, stop signs and giveway signs?

    Ultimately, the relationship between crash risk and speed is 4th power at the most, worked out mathematically based on the principles of risk management.
     
  14. immortality

    immortality Moderator Staff Member

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    Damn, what a great response :)

    I totally agree, driver attention is as more important as any other factor but it's totally ignored by the powers that be simply because it's not measurable and therefor not able to be subject to fines.

    I've seen accident investigations where road surface/traction was measured by a cop car doing emergency stops to measure the distance it slides (they must have been disabling the ABS systems to perform such tests) even though the vehicle that crashed was a small front wheel drive vehicle......
     
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  15. c2105026

    c2105026 Member

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    During 2005-2006 I worked a 6 month placement with Road Safety Strategy with the NSW RTA. One of the programs they were looking at was quelling the upward trend of motorcycle crashes on the Old Pacific Highway. As a graduate civil engineer I was working with Road Environment Safety branch. So we were brainstorming ideas at a meeting. Here is how it went:

    "Ok so whats causing these crashes"
    "Speed"
    "Alcohol"
    "Fatigue"
    Me: "Inattention"
    "We've got fatigue"
    Me:"No, I mean, not concentrating, having your mind on the job"
    "Yeh that's fatigue"
    Me: *ROLLS EYES*

    Saw some very interesting stats too about what speeds vehicles were travelling with fatal crashes (80% of the time the stated speed in the police report was the speed limit - presumably because the police were too fucking lazy to investigate further). One crash report suggested that a car travelling at 70 in a 110 zone on a very mild highway bend (radius = 800m) (albeit in the wet) was going 'too fast for the conditions' and was 'speeding'. Bullshit.

    Next I'll tell you what popular SUV failed its ANCAP test in a late 2005 crash test, but got re-tested as a mulligan to please the manufacturer....

    And of the original batch of speed cameras (installed 1999), what percentage of sites saw an increase in crashes. This figure was left out of the report that was released to the public.
     

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