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VB-VS Motorkhana/entry level track car

Marko_SJ

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Gday fellas long time no post on JustCommodores, since spent a bit of money and time on Suzuki Sierras (GRPABT1 are you out there???) and GU patrols and a few motorbikes.

Because I cant see myself competing with my RGV250 every month the interest has renewed in 4 wheel motorsports that isnt 4x4ing, I have been tossing up for a long time now about getting into entry level track or motorkhana at Hidden Valley. I'd like to do it in a commodore because they go for affordable prices and parts are everywhere, I also prefer rear wheel drive to front wheel drive (otherwise I'd just buy a FWD corolla or an Excel). RWD corollas and Datsun/Nissans, or BMWs are too expensive for what you get.

Can the commodores compete?

What mods have you done?

Are they too big?

Are the brakes and handling acceptable?

The car I buy doesnt even have to be road worthy as I have access to a trailer, a place to keep the sucker and my GU to tow it with. My thoughts are to buy a cheap unroadworthy 6 cylinder manual commodore. Can I make an early model out handle my VE?

Cheers.

Mark.
 

NPreston

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Reckon my VC will out handle your VE but it costs money. Mine is fairly basic as far as suspension goes, no coil overs as apart from the cost I think they would interfere with front inside wheel clearance. I have 400lb custom made King springs which you will have to make captive as they are about 75mm lower than their standard springs, cost from memory was $400. Front struts have been bent to provide 3 to 4 degrees negative camber, shock absorbers are Koni sport adjustable. Heaviest Whiteline front sway bar set to maximum. Adjustable strut tops, VT brakes and master cylinder.
Rear end is is VL turbo rear axle 4.11:1, King springs from a VC wagon reset 1 inch lower, Koni sport adjustable shock absorbers, adjustable upper control arms so the diff can be set pointing downwards 4 degrees. No rear sway bar, you want the rear end to be relatively soft and the front hard. Adjustable Panhard rod is required and with 8" rims on VL axle needs to be precisely adjusted to give clearance.Six point cage stiffens it right up. Wheels are 15 x8" Simmons V5 with 225/45x15 Nitto NT01 semi slicks. I've just fitted an L67 engine and am using the T5 gearbox which I was already using and it was full rebuilt last year so hopefully will last a while.
 

Marko_SJ

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Reckon my VC will out handle your VE but it costs money. Mine is fairly basic as far as suspension goes, no coil overs as apart from the cost I think they would interfere with front inside wheel clearance. I have 400lb custom made King springs which you will have to make captive as they are about 75mm lower than their standard springs, cost from memory was $400. Front struts have been bent to provide 3 to 4 degrees negative camber, shock absorbers are Koni sport adjustable. Heaviest Whiteline front sway bar set to maximum. Adjustable strut tops, VT brakes and master cylinder.
Rear end is is VL turbo rear axle 4.11:1, King springs from a VC wagon reset 1 inch lower, Koni sport adjustable shock absorbers, adjustable upper control arms so the diff can be set pointing downwards 4 degrees. No rear sway bar, you want the rear end to be relatively soft and the front hard. Adjustable Panhard rod is required and with 8" rims on VL axle needs to be precisely adjusted to give clearance.Six point cage stiffens it right up. Wheels are 15 x8" Simmons V5 with 225/45x15 Nitto NT01 semi slicks. I've just fitted an L67 engine and am using the T5 gearbox which I was already using and it was full rebuilt last year so hopefully will last a while.

That's exactly what I wanted to hear mate.

I assume you use your VC for circuit? Got any pics? show it off. Edit: and how does it go?

Edit: Can Holden stock limited slip diffs be shimmed up tight like Patrol/Skyline diffs? Do they last?

Mark
 

Smitty

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Reckon my VC will out handle your VE but it costs money. Mine is fairly basic as far as suspension goes, no coil overs as apart from the cost I think they would interfere with front inside wheel clearance. I have 400lb custom made King springs which you will have to make captive as they are about 75mm lower than their standard springs, cost from memory was $400. Front struts have been bent to provide 3 to 4 degrees negative camber, shock absorbers are Koni sport adjustable. Heaviest Whiteline front sway bar set to maximum. Adjustable strut tops, VT brakes and master cylinder.
Rear end is is VL turbo rear axle 4.11:1, King springs from a VC wagon reset 1 inch lower, Koni sport adjustable shock absorbers, adjustable upper control arms so the diff can be set pointing downwards 4 degrees. No rear sway bar, you want the rear end to be relatively soft and the front hard. Adjustable Panhard rod is required and with 8" rims on VL axle needs to be precisely adjusted to give clearance.Six point cage stiffens it right up. Wheels are 15 x8" Simmons V5 with 225/45x15 Nitto NT01 semi slicks. I've just fitted an L67 engine and am using the T5 gearbox which I was already using and it was full rebuilt last year so hopefully will last a while.

.. roughly similar specs to the VK !
but I am running a VL 304 black motor with an aussie 4 speed (and 3.36 HD Salisbury mit spool)
wheels are 17x8.5 GTS copies with 245/40/17 Falken semis (as wets) or 255/35/17 Toyos 888s with 4mm tread (dry use only)

front suspension is fully adjustable (NO bent struts here) with Bilstein insert coilovers, adjustable z bars and steel strut tops running 7° castor, 4° neg camber and 6mm toe out
rear suspension is what is known as adjustable coilover. Front and rear ride heights are adjustable too...

Here exiting Dandenong Rd corner at Sandown...


.. with Toyos on ROH rims

 

Smitty

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............

Edit: Can Holden stock limited slip diffs be shimmed up tight like Patrol/Skyline diffs? Do they last?

Mark

in a GMH HD large salisburys, yes you can tighten them up nicely.

I rebuilt the diff in the VK when I bought it (it was rooted, backlash wrong and howled when driven)
New bearings, original gears, new seals and double springs in the LSD housing gave a diff
that lasted 9 seasons of racing ('til I took a tooth off the pinion at PI last year)

Housing was a bastard to put together though....and I got the thrust plates case hardened
as I knew they would wear.

A spool is easier diff wise.. but a car with a spool is a very different animal to drive at
high speed on a circuit (especially if the circuit is wet or has damp bits) from a car
with an LSD (even a very tight one)
 

_R_J_K_

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If by motorkhana you're talking about the courses with the flags you have to drive around, the Commodore will be awful. Short wheel base is the advantage there instead of power, not to mention the Commo is a boat and will wallow all over the the place.

As far as track cars, shoot over to Performance Forums, lots of people building budget track 1st and 2nd gen Commodores up there.

Just keep it simple stupid, manual VS Ecotec would be my pick if you're after a cheap track car. As for out handling the VE, really the only advantage you have is lighter weight with an early bird.
 

Marko_SJ

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If by motorkhana you're talking about the courses with the flags you have to drive around, the Commodore will be awful. Short wheel base is the advantage there instead of power, not to mention the Commo is a boat and will wallow all over the the place.

As far as track cars, shoot over to Performance Forums, lots of people building budget track 1st and 2nd gen Commodores up there.

Just keep it simple stupid, manual VS Ecotec would be my pick if you're after a cheap track car. As for out handling the VE, really the only advantage you have is lighter weight with an early bird.

Yes, motorkhana, the courses on the skidpan. The idea has been put on the back burner as I need to be saving money for a house right now (lol).

I'd decided to run a corolla RWD (preferably an AE71) or early twin cam AE82. Maybe even an S13. Different problems with each, notwitstanding that finding either for the right price isnt particularly easy here.

Still going to check out the scene, there's one on in a couple of weeks.
 
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