VN Calais Sedan Power Window Motors into VS Wagon, Any problems?

[nugatory]

hey guys, I've got a VS S1 Wagon that doesn't have power windows, but it has power mirrors and central locking.

I purchased the complete set of power window motors and regulators out of a VN Calais Sedan. Are these motors and regulators compatible with a VS S1 Wagon?

With the motors came the entire wiring loom from the main wiring harness plug. The guy was kind enough to cut this on the main wiring side of the plug, so I've got the both sides of the plug from the main wiring harness and it's got the 3 wires that go to the fuse box. Then it's got the 4 complete door wiring looms with the plug adapter for the power mirrors switch, central locking etc, buttons and rear door switches all from a VN Calais.

It looks to be compatible upon looking at it but does anyone know if the wiring looms are different between the two harnesses between VN and VS from the main wiring harness connector? and if there's a difference between the Central Locking wiring and Power Mirror Wiring in a VN to VS in this same loom? Are VN Sedan motors and regulators compatible with a VS Wagons?

Any help here is appreciated!

 

[markovr]

I have a vp power window setup in my vr if that is any help and I didnt have any dramas...you can strip just the power window wiring out of the vn harness or just put it all in and leave the power door locking wiring in the loom disconnected....thats what I did You just have to take out the two lugs that feed the front doors on each side and slip them out of the vn door connectors on each side and into you vs door harness connector....green and blue wires on the left and greenorange and bluewhite on the right.
The front doors are already wired up for power windows on a vs so you dont have to touch the front looms in the doors but the rear looms have to come out and be replaced by the ones that have power windows.
I noticed that some later vs have a different type of rear door lock motor with a different connector..you wont know it until you pull yours apart.
You need 4 connections for the power....constant 12 v from fuse /circuitbreaker 5 you slide in a orange green wire with a lug into the bottom of that fuse holder, a 12v ign feed from fuse 7 a orange/violet tee off connection , a connection that tees off your door switch which is a white wire and a negative to the body black.Regulators are the same and wagons and sedans are the same....some later had a different type of regulator on the rear doors that had the control wire enclosed in a sheath but they are all mounted exactly the same.

 

[nugatory]

Wow thanks Mark, this is extremely helpful! Does your VR already have central locking fitted through its normal circuit? It looks like I have everything I need already then. I'll use this as my guide, and shouldn't have any problems.

Hopefully by later VS's you mean Series II. Mine is a Series I so hopefully it should be the same as a VN/VP.

Do you recommend Riviting the regulators in or using the bolt up method as listed in here somewhere?

The harness I've got cuts off behind the power window module, so I've got the power window module etc as well with all wiring intact for that as well right to the front switches etc. I'll start inspecting it later examing these wires that I need. Do I need to remove the dash for this or is the passenger side lug accessable from behind the glovebox to insert these pins into.

If I wanted a professional to do this relatively cheap and I'll get all the wiring up ready for them so all they have to do is the regulators, who is best to go through? a mechanic or a body shop or would it depend on the mechanic or body shop themselves? If you know of one that loves this sort of work, please also pm me the details!

Thanks!

 

[markovr]

Rivet the rears with those big headed pop rivets and screw the fronts to the front panel..on the front there are only 4 of them and they snap the rivets in time.
If you take off the end pieces of the dash and kick panels you can get to the door connectors no worries.I only used the 2 wires (blue and green on the left)( blue/white ang green/black on the right)on each end of the loom for the power windows the rest is just sitting there spare.
You will have to cut a bit out of the steel bracket that runs along the bottom of the fuses on the right to mount the module for the wiring plug so it sits flush under the right hand fuse panel and make up a litle right angle bracket for it to screw to at the top.Ican show you a few pictures.Check out this thread too http://forums.justcommodores.com.au...ling-electric-windows-vp-exec.html#post144905
I found this mod http://forums.justcommodores.com.au...3/9187-few-easy-wiring-changes.html#post63386 useful too if you wanted to operate the power windows and you didnt have the keys ...it basically restarts the timer.I used the rear washer switch out of a vn/p wagon in my vr .It goes into the console near the theft deterent led.
In my previous post I mentioned a orange/violet wire tee off connection....it feeds from fuse 7 to the power door lock module on a vn/p and then a pink wire feeds back from the module to the window module...since you arent using the lock module you will need to join the pink and the orange/violet wire somewhere to give the window module a 12v ign feed.

 

[nugatory]

In your picture at http://forums.justcommodores.com.au...installing-electric-windows-vp-exec-power.jpg is that the relay for the power window module?

Also is that the factory area for fitting the power window module and does it interfere with the adjustable (up/down) steering rack?

I only used the 2 wires (blue and green on the left)( blue/white ang green/black on the right)

I've located these wires. These are in the centre more or less of the front door connector. They are slightly thicker than the other wires going into the harness by the looks to carry lots of current. The wire on the right is actually blue/white & green/orange on this harness. So these are the only 2 wires/pins I need to lug out and patch into the front door harness connector plug?

Then on the rear door connector on the right hand side, there's a plug with a Green/Yellow & Blue/Yellow wire with a white wire attached. (On the left it's Green/Red & Blue/Red).

I'm going to assume this plug is missing off my car at the moment and I have to add it in for the new lug that's added from the new rear door looms to connect up to. And same with the left hand side.

Once this harness is in, the spare rear door connector (power window connector?) just plugs into this plug, and the original plugs should plug back into the original harness in the car?

I've enclosed a picture of what I've got, plus a picture of the main plug (3rd Attachment). This is where I think I'm meant to be powering the powermodule from, because after looking at your mod at http://forums.justcommodores.com.au...3/9187-few-easy-wiring-changes.html#post63386 I think you're tapping straight into the power window module directly bypassing this plug in the 3rd attachment).

I'm going to energise this wiring loom outside of the car first and hopefully get one motor working by just moving the motor from lug to lug testing each connection.

Giving the orange/voilet, and a thick orange/green wire 12v+ and then earthing the black wire should give me all the power I need to energise this?

The illumination is automatic in this too I think as the lights on indicate the power window system is on. The Front Door Jamb Switch (White wire?) is an earth wire am I correct which is an earth contact when the door is open? Would this need to be connected to earth just for testing?

Also there's a black plug I'm really concerned about which I *think* is a pcm plug on the left side of the loom just before the passenger door harness connector.

The mod listed at http://forums.justcommodores.com.au...3/9187-few-easy-wiring-changes.html#post63386 is helpful, however the pink wire is below the slot listed on the one on the mod page. If you have a look at my first attachment you can see the pink wire is on the same row as the orange/green, but this shouldn't make too much difference.

The VS Berlinas have the functionality that you can wind down the windows while the car is off and without the key so this mod would be handy if the setup is out of a VN/VP. I'm not sure if this differs from the VN Setup as I haven't experimented with a VN/VP windows while the car is off.

I think that's it for now. Sorry if I've repeated anything here as I'm getting my head around all this

 

[markovr]

The relay is my added extra to save the module reay contacts..dont know if it is needed ..just my overkill
Yep you only need 2 wires on each end at the door connector
There is a white wire in the power setup that starts the timer countdown..that is 45 sec if you earth the white wire simulating opening the door and much longer if you dont assuming you are still in the car and havent openned the door.

 

[nugatory]

Ok excellent. I've made a lot of progress now. I've managed to strip the wiring loom down to just the power window electrics and I've taped it all back up. It's much less bulky now, and I've removed the 2 pins from each side of the front door connectors ready for when I install it into the car. That was fairly easy.

The orange / violet wire itself went elsewhere in the loom (to the calais bcm or pcm connector in attachment 2 above) so I cut this off the main control plug as it actually doesn't seem useful, and there's now only 4 wires left.

A rather thick orange / green wire, a pink wire that comes out of the power window module itself that I had to cut (see below). A White wire with brown specs. And a big thick Black Earth wire.

The pink wire traced back from the power control module goes to the Calais bcm or pcm (no idea) plug and it's also tee'd off and goes to the electronic mirror switch maybe for power for this? It bypasses the main loom plug altogether in this particular loom when I got it and gets the ignition power from elsewhere.

This would make sense as the power mirrors only work when the car is ignition on. I cut it off at the tee and then wired it into one of the pins I took out of the main loom plug (above in attachment 3) and then inserted the pin into the main loom plug.

This will make it a lot easier to wire into the car now as the main loom plug now only has the 4 wires in it instead of the 8 or so it had which at a later point will be wired into a relay etc when it actually gets installed into the car and will look super neat with it's own plug etc.

So I can only gather that:

Orange / Green = Constant 12v
Pink = Ignition
Black = Earth
White = Door Jamb Trigger Switch

I've connected the Orange / Green up to 12v and Pink up to 12v and Black up to Earth on my 12v 1.5 Amp Powerpack here (should be enough to give it power at least) and I got nothing. No lights, no nothing. I don't think the white needs to be earthed as it's a timed feature, but even earthing it out, it didn't seem to make a difference.

Does it need all of the switches connected up to complete the circuit? because I'm missing one of the switch blocks for the console - the one without the child safety switch and the switchblock I've actually got which is the one with the child safety switch, might be faulty as this was a leftover item from a workshop.

When it's powered up, should the lights for the switches come on? This might be why you need all switches connected...

If not, I might have a faulty Power Window Module . Do you have any wiring diagrams on this or ways of testing it for continuity from a VN Manual?

Thanks for all your help so far, I'm 90% of the way there now, and will be on the wait again while I source more console switches.

 

[markovr]

There is a earth connection on the plug that the switches plug in to at the console...providing it is made the module should allow power to light up the leds in the switch...you dont need them all plugged up it should work with one....not sure if it needs the white wire to be earthed to initialise the first powerup ...probably not but worth a try....the actual modules are notorious for going high resistance on the printed circuitboard around the relay soldered to it...this may be your problem...you can easily take the lid off and check the board for dry joints...they modded the board in vp later cars by soldering a copper strand the cope with the current so the copper track didnt do this again.Check out this thread https://forums.justcommodores.com.au/threads/power-window-failure.30065 youll see what I mean if you look at the picture in this thread.

 

[nugatory]

Hey thanks Mark. I pulled the power window module apart after reading http://forums.justcommodores.com.au/electrical-wiring-questions/46537-vp-window-module.html and tested all the connections with a multimeter and they seemed good, then put it all back together, tested it and it now works!.... something was just screwed the first time round, but now I've seen the entire system working and it's ready for the car. I don't want any wiring problems once it actually gets into the car because installing the regulators etc is a completely other issue.

You at least need this one switch with the child safety switch to test one of the rears at all (then test each loom on the right rear). Having just the other switch would let you test the front left door only.

Lucky I've got this one switch from a spare as the kit I got was only missing the front switches. I'll source new switches altogether now for the front and replace this one too because the markings for the child safety button etc are fairly worn, but it works, and that's the main thing while testing this.

It all works like it should. After connecting the orange wire first, Tapping the pink cable on 12v turns on the whole system (I didn't try the delay here yet)... it seemed to stay on, but then tapping the white cable on earth turned it all off after 45 seconds like it should.


I tested all the end connections with a testing light and it all worked like it should (swapped voltages on all plugs when down etc etc). This didn't put any strain on the 1.5 amp Power Supply either which is good because all it had to power was a light.

I really like how this VN/VP setup is completely isolated from the VS BCM (actually it works off a 12v power supply!). Thanks for all your help mark, the rest should be downhill from here.

*Edit: Upon second playing, the connections do need resoldering on the power window module circuit board. Once the system turns on occasionally it loses contacts until the plug into the power window module is adjusted... Grrr..

 

[markovr]

Thats great...As well I installed 2 relays in each of the rear doors and lefthand front door to take all the current of the motors so it saves the console switches (which are notorious for burning contacts out and bloody expensive) and it also speeds up the rear windows that are slow at times.I ran the power for them from the fuse 6 and put another circuitbreaker in this position.The relays are the ones with the tin tops with the normally closed contact as well as the normally open contact like in your fuel pump relay.