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VT A/C problems Maybe due to custom tune???

Nut Kracker

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Thankyou for your reply.
I thought about the BCM as the fault.
The A/C switch is positively powered and the relay relies on a negative signal from the PCM to fire it, as there is a contant +12 volts at the realy.
I'm not too keen in by passing the BCM and the PCM as the fans wouldn't come on and the idle would not ajust. Also the pressure switch would be disabled.
 

Nut Kracker

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THANKYOU EVERYONE FOR YOUR REPLIES AND SUGGESTIONS. IT IS GREATLY APPRECIATED.

I also want to check the data link wire between the BCM and the PCM.
I think I found the colour of the wire but would like to confirm it.....Tan with a Black trace. Am I correct?

Edit- Due to it being in the low 40's all this week where I live, there might be a little delay in doing these task. As I'm not as young as I used to be. lol.
Edit II- To the Moderators.
I only started this thread on the Mace section, as I thought they might know something as they do custom tunes (No offence to the guys at Mace).
My appologies if it is in the wrong section.

Geoff.
 
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Nut Kracker

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When the tune was converted to MAFless was any wiring changed? If you still have the MAF it would certainly answer the question.

I'm not anywhere as good as the guys at Delcohack when it comes to doing code and **** like that. If you post on there forum someone may help you out and define the stuff you need in the XDF you need to see what is going on.

I wouldn't mind seeing your tune though. Let us know how you get on.

Cheers

If I read the OP correctly, the A/C has never been seen to work?

Maybe check if the PCM is (trying to) switching the A/C compressor. One of the two pins on the A/C compressor relay switching side should have power to it, the other is switched to earth via the PCM if the BCM sends a serial data signal to the PCM. Have you checked to see if the Voltage on the earth pin at the relay drops to zero when the A/C button is pressed? I have the wire as light green with a blue trace, going to F4 at the PCM. You can lift the relay a little bit out of the socket pin to access the terminal without disabling the relay operation.

The A/C button is only momentary so if you can see the A/C signal input via Tech 2 that would suggest the BCM is seeing that as an input. Without climate control (SS - ???) the LED on the A/C switch should light via the BCM if the A/C signal is on. Is it?

There should be Voltage at BCM terminal B3, dark green/yellow trace, as the blower fan input to the BCM. (No climate control.)



What signal Voltage did you get out of the A/C pressure transducer? (I know it was "checked").

I was reading through the manual and it said that when the A/C is switched on, the pcm delays the engagement of clutch on the compressor for a couple of seconds so as the iac valve can compensate for the extra load on the engine. Now, if the iac was faulty and couldn't adjust the idle, would the a/c switch on?
I have been having trouble with the idle. On a cold start the idle doesn't increase. On a hot start, the engine will rev to about 1500 rpm for a few seconds and then drop to normal revs and when pulling up to a stop, with clutch in, the idle will increase also to about 1500 rpm for a few seconds, then reduce to normal.
It's a manual, by the way.
Food for thought.......
 

Cheap6

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I can check the wire colour and terminal connections for the serial data between the BCM and PCM for you when I have access to a wiring diagram.

I can't see any reason for the A/C not to work just because the IAC motor or valve isn't holding the idle steady. It's been too long since I've driven a VT 304 manual to recall whether it is normal to flare on a hot start but the flare coming to a stop doesn't sound right. Maybe that has something to do with the MAFless operation.

If the A/C LED isn't lit then it's likely the BCM isn't sending a signal to the PCM to switch the A/C on either; the BCM switches the LED.

It's easy to get lost looking for obscure things when there's a few electronic control units involved. In my experience the most common cause of A/C systems ceasing to work is the refrigerant leaking away which is why I was asking about the pressure switch Voltage signal output. It will be possible to provide a dummy 0-5V signal in place of that, as a test, and I can give you the wires and terminal assignations with the serial data terminals and wires (^) if you want.
 

Nut Kracker

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I can check the wire colour and terminal connections for the serial data between the BCM and PCM for you when I have access to a wiring diagram.

I can't see any reason for the A/C not to work just because the IAC motor or valve isn't holding the idle steady. It's been too long since I've driven a VT 304 manual to recall whether it is normal to flare on a hot start but the flare coming to a stop doesn't sound right. Maybe that has something to do with the MAFless operation.

If the A/C LED isn't lit then it's likely the BCM isn't sending a signal to the PCM to switch the A/C on either; the BCM switches the LED.

It's easy to get lost looking for obscure things when there's a few electronic control units involved. In my experience the most common cause of A/C systems ceasing to work is the refrigerant leaking away which is why I was asking about the pressure switch Voltage signal output. It will be possible to provide a dummy 0-5V signal in place of that, as a test, and I can give you the wires and terminal assignations with the serial data terminals and wires (^) if you want.

Thankyou very much.
I would be very grateful for any infomation you can give me.
I will check that voltage at the pressure switch and let you know.
As far as I know, the gas pressure is ok as it was re gassed and new compressor in Feb las year and Holden checked the gas pressure about 6 months ago.
 

MACE

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No need to apologies Kracker,

Interesting, technical, constructive threads are always welcomed here, as long as they're not derogatory

I'm more spewing that have been slow to respond, but fortunately you've been given some solid advice :)

Assuming that the hardware is all 100% in order then it would be a calibration/tune related issue which is certainly possible

Am interested to see your findings

Must plow through more work till everyone comes back on break :(



Can't wait to see what the outcome is
 

Cheap6

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Yes, without climate control.
In answer to your first paragraph, The result was.... With the relay removed, across the terminals that power the relay, there is 12 volts regardless of the position of the A/C switch. When the relay was connected, the voltage dropped to zero, also regardless of the switch position. This indicates to me that there is little or no current to fire the relay. Am I correct in saying this?

Across those two terminals it should be 0V. With the relay in place, with respect to earth, there should be battery Voltage on both terminals unless the PCM is trying to switch the relay (and the A/C compressor) on in which case there should be 0V on the earthed side of the relay wrt earth. If the PCM is earthing the switching side of the relay then all the other components - A/C request input (the switch), BCM, pressure switch, refrigerant etc. and the connections between them - "upstream" have to be OK also.

Voltage and current is good from the positve side of the relay socket, as the compressor clutch engages when the relay socket is bridged.
I checked the wire between the relay and the PCM for continuity and all is good there. (It's actually XB. Light Green with a Black trace on my car).

If you earth that wire - at the relay is OK if you know the connection to the PCM is good - with the relay in place, in parallel with the PCM earth, then the compressor clutch should likewise engage.

The A/C light does not come on at all.

As that's switched by the BCM also, if the A/C is 'on', that indicates to me that the BCM isn't going to be telling the PCM to switch the A/C on.

Holden said they checked the wire fom the A/C switch to the BCM terminal C9 and all was ok there.

D9 at the BCM? Red, white trace. It may depend on the BCM though.

I will check the voltage at the BCM, terminal B3 and let you know.

By way of explanation: B3 at the BCM is from the fan speed control so the BCM "knows" the HVAC fan is on.

As far as the voltage out of the pressure transducer, I don't know. That was checked by Holden. I will double check.

Wires:

Earth: F16 at PCM, black.

Pressure signal: B3 at PCM, green, black trace.

5V reference: B7 at PCM, violet, white trace.

I also want to check the data link wire between the BCM and the PCM.
I think I found the colour of the wire but would like to confirm it.....Tan with a Black trace. Am I correct?

Geoff.

I have the serial data connection between the BCM and PCM as red with black trace between D2 at the BCM and A3 at the PCM.

Other thoughts:

It's possible the idle flaring is the PCM correcting for an A/C compressor load on the engine that isn't there i.e. the PCM is earthing the A/C relay but there's a fault on that circuit somewhere. i.e. it's a symptom not a cause. That doesn't explain the A/C light not being lit though.

There is a wide open throttle cut out of the A/C via the PCM. Something there?

The BCM has to earth the blower inhibit relay via BCM B1, green wire, for there to be an input to the A/C blower input at BCM B3.

There has to be a thermostat input at BCM D4, green wire, for the A/C to be on.

BCM D9, red, white trace, is the A/C switch input (as ^).

BCM B8, red, brown trace, is the A/C LED earth.

The PCM switches off the A/C with refrigerant pressure too low or too high or coolant temp. too high.
 

Nut Kracker

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WOW Cheap6 Thanks so much for the info. I really appreciate this.
You certainly have been busy. You have given me plenty to work with.
I should be getting that factory tuned chip in the next day or so. At least if that doesn't change anything, then at least
I will know it's not in the tune. If it is the problem, well it's something they will have to sort out.
The more I think about this, the more I'm thinking it's the BCM. After all, after the switch, the next thing that should happen is the A/C light should come on to show that the signal is being received by the BCM. So if the BCM isn't switching, then nothing after that would happen. Is my assumtion right??
 

Nut Kracker

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Update.
Waiting on Scott from Chip Control to send me a "standard tune" chip to see if it fixes the problem.
He did send me one the other day but the car would not turn over. He thinks maybe the security protocols were engaged not allowing a start up.
Anyway....just have to wait and see.
By the time I get this fixed, I will have to get a new compressor 'cause the seals will have dried out.
 
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