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Discussion in 'The Pub' started by Skydrol, Sep 24, 2015.
Here in the USA is going like wild fire. What are you guys getting down there?
It's getting a bit of media but nothing huge.
Naughty, naughty VW. Pretty stupid too. Did they really think that programming diesel cars to pass the EPA, then revert to normal emission settings which were much higher (and illegal) wouldn't eventually be detected? I can see legal action from both the government and mislead customers heading their way.
For a company that used to pride itself on the advanced engineering and integrity of the company, they sure have take a dive in recent years.
Who gives a flying ####? Typical beat up by "media".
As if they don't all do it! It doesn't affect anything or anyone. Move on.
getting huge media here, VW are in massive trouble over this.
That's all i have to say...
Well obviously the EPA and the US government give a flying ####.
Duped customers will give a flying #### when their cars have to be reprogrammed and ultimately have less performance and poorer economy
I'm sure that VW probably give a flying #### now.
Only one who doesn't give a flying #### is you because you just don't understand
I know any of our cars in the US will fail the test under certain conditions. In my opinion, if they pass the test and get certified is fine with me. Perhaps the test is flawed and they just figured a way to pass it. So what, they just nailed the test within the EPA rules.
The EPA is pretty much a love/hate relationship. They are more known for destroying business than helping the environment. Emissions tests is more laxed on trucks than cars and even with the same engine. For example, the G8 GXP had a gas guzzler tax, but a truck with a bigger engine and worse economy does not. However not all the states have emission test and have been abandoned. Texas, Oklahoma, Minnesota just to name a few they got rid of their emission test. So that test VW failed means nothing to those states.
That is just the California State and Federal Gov hoopla; just politics.
That affects? In a big way ! They are looking at hefty fine, law suits and such. GM on another hand, they have, 120'some fatalities related to the ignition switches. According to the authorities they knew about it for years, nothing was done about it. The solution is a key and a key chain. VW killed nobody and they are talking about Billions, GM 600 Million got them off the hook.
Here is some interesting if you guys want to dig on it.
Who killed the GM EV1 Electric car and what was the faith of all of them? The same people that are pissing, moaning and groaning about VW Diesel (CARB and EPA).
The GM thing was an engineering issue a fault and the relevant authorities have handed down what they deemed appropriate and that particular case is irrelevant this story is only about VW, VW sought to and have deliberately mislead testing to get compliance on something that is non-compliant.
VW is wilfully polluting the environment. Big polluters are punished appropriately as are fraudsters.
The electric car, yeah GM killed it off because conspiracy - more like the market is barely ready for it now.... Volt's selling like hotcakes isn't it, oh wait, no it's not.....
What VW did is basically what everyone does when they get an aftermarket parts on their car. More power at the cost of better fuel consumption and less pollution, hence why you see a disclaimer on performance parts that states "for off road use only". They put the fault back on to the consumer. They can probably get around this by issuing a recall and removing the programming off the affected cars and pay a fine.
What I see being the bigger issue is that VW mislead the public and did not provide a product they advertised. (Class action???)
I have a diesel Passat Alltrack and am not really concerned about my vehicle. It goes well (125kw and 350Nm), does 700kms per tank around the city (65L) and has a big boot and cabin to accommodate the family. If a recall was in place in Australia, I'd probably get that done and then go straight to a tune shop and have an aftermarket tune installed.
On another note this might be a lost opportunity for Holden and Ford who will be closing their manufacturing factories.
For some odd reason electric cars here are protected. Tesla for example, receives tons of Tax Breaks, Grants and because EPA Cap and Trade they are eligible to sell their carbon credits to other manufacturers. Still, they still have a carbon footprint like any other manufacturer. The battery manufacturing pollute (not done in the USA) more than an assembly line that made the Hummer. Cradle to Grave are consider hazardous waste and none recyclable. Still, because the car is electric they can sell their Extortion Carbon Credits. Not defending VW nor against it; just seeking the truth.
Here in the states, the VW TDI is getting better fuel efficiency than any Hybrid on the market for less and still looks like a car instead of a Geek/Nerdmobile. Remember seen on the road ads about their fuel economy, slowly, they just plain disappeared. For ages, Diesel cars were trying to make it in the USA market and always had some against them that made them not cost effective. For example, my wife bought an 07 VW Beetle. The dealer had an 07 TDI Beetle, we drove it and loved that cavernous deep low RPM torque. Not a slouch, did not smelled and the engine was quiet as a mouse; you cannot even tell was a Diesel. They had one little problem... 5 Cly Gasoline engine was $22,000; TDI $34,000 no market adjustment, no special incentives, no discounts, no lower interest rate, no leases. For us was more cost effective to buy Gasoline because at the time fuel prices, you need to drive it over 10 years to get your money back on fuel savings. Now, VW is selling the TDI on any car starting at about mid $20,000 and any Hybrid is about mid $30,000 and that is with Gov incentives; the Volt is about $45,000 (can buy a VF Commodore "Chevy SS" for that much coin). One thing that came through the grapevine that at the end of the current administration, all hybrids and electrics will not have the Gov subsidy (expiration). TDI in another hand, is a great engine that is multifuel and loved by all greenies because they run Bio-Diesel.
Perhaps the Diesel engine is cursed... does anybody know Rudolf Diesel story?
Funny thing happened on the way though, VW claimed those credits too mate.... via fraud.
U.S. taxpayers duped into shelling out $51 million in green subsidies for 'clean' VW vehicles - LA Times
It mightn't affect us as we don't have the EPA levels that some US states have, but the scale of the deception is significant. It's reported as a deliberate action taken to manipulate the programming of the engine management system with the explicit aim of meeting legal standards then reverting to normal operation at much higher emissions levels. Other manufacturers probably have done something similar, but the number of vehicles involved is reported at around half a million.
Plenty of "enviro-conscous" buyers are really ticked off that the environmentally friendly car they thought they bought isn't so friendly after all. Government fines might not amount to much, but if a reasonable percentage of buyers decide to take the matter up, it could be a very big class action, as already mentioned.
And don't the Yanks love litigation?
- Company share value down $26B in one day.
- Up to $18B of EPA fines possible (Up to $37,500 per car x ~500,000 cars)
- VW Group CEO falls in his sword
- ~500,000 US customers just waiting to sue VW if they take their car in under a recall and it comes back slower and thirstier.
I know... add to the German economy, Greece, Refugees, failing Euro and the world's #1 car manufacturer hit with such a mess. I can see some plant closing, jobs affected.
For now I am going to sit and wait for the development. Paying retribution, just like post both World Wars.
I think it will be some serious talks between our nations.
Interesting is the article. On my state does not have such incentive as far I know. When I did my taxes the question never came up.
Yes Calaber, litigation is one of the USA pastimes beside eating.
i wonder if other car manufacturers have been doing it
Widespread misinformation and gassing millions? Hitler would be so proud.
Of course they have!
When there's a test that's done completely independently of real world use, how is the test even legitimate to start with? It's not.
Having a test mode on a car is no different to having a track mode. Just because it's a mode the car is capable of doesn't mean that's how it will always be used under real world, every day conditions.
Wow! And there's a comment above that says I don't understand... LOL!!!
Programming to pass EPA emissions testing in one state in the US and various countries across Europe when the rest of the world don't have the same limits. The majority of sales by VW are into areas that the vehicles actually pass without this software, so who is more greedy? California, particularly LA, is more a geographic issue than a pollution one. The native American name for LA translated to "Valley of Smoke", they wouldn't live there. The state tries to reduce pollutants to reduce smog so it's comfortable for the people to live in a bad place. Taxing polluters sure works for the government, it's easier to get revenue from polluters by making them comply to their regulations or pay a tax *cough "fine"* so they can emit more.
Europe is the same with their emissions testing and limits. The well developed countries impose high limits and taxes to compensate for he higher polluters that don't have the resources or the personal wealth to afford to comply.
According to Rueters.com. China is the largest polluter in the world, followed by USA, Russia, India, Japan, Germany and Canada. One state in the USA and Germany are the only two on this list that have strict emissions limits that VW have "cheated", to me, these limits are a business decision not a an environmental one. Pay a tax, pay a fine, pay pay pay because that looks after the environment. Carbon Tax bullshit. I'm not a greeny, but I am environmentally aware and I'd like to see a greener world. But fining a manufacturer for getting around emissions limits in a small segment of their market is hardly being a champion for the environment.
You can bet your sweet bipee on that one.
Just wait 'till the fit really hits the shan.
Quite frankly, like it or not what I say, but I would like to see diesel private cars banned.
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