VW Vs EPA drama ?

[Grennan]

So as someone who works in the industry weve been getting a lot of information passed our way and its been the talk off the office.

Here in the USA is going like wild fire. What are you guys getting down there?

Its starting to erupt today with the overnight revelations that the CEO quit.

Here, its only expected 450,000 cars will be affected and it doesnt have as wide grasping legal ramifications as it does in the US because we dont have strict EPA laws like the US and more specifically Cali. Even in Europe. Those same restrictions dont exist so this is more a US only issue.

In the US this has MASSIVE rammifcations, from the EPA, civil suits and perhaps even claims from other car manufacturers. Dont forget, so far, theyve only identified Volkswagens. Audi and Skoda use Volkswagen Engines as well so expect more to unravel.

For those that dont know, the situation is you plug the car in and it alters the the emissions. End result was they could not meet the emissions target with the power and the mileage they wanted. Estimations are it was between 20 and 40 times more the emission standard. You could argue that this is similar to adding aftermarket parts. However, this was done with a very specific task in mind and that was to slip the emissions under the radar to maximize economy and power to have a superior product. It would be like Holden installing steel wool in all their exhausts prior to their tests then ripping it out as soon as it leaves the dealership. Its very different when Joe Bloggs does it because they arent trying to deceive the market.

The EPA fine is set to be massive. The BP spill cost around 19 billion in fines. On top of this, people who purchased the car will be filing class actions because they may have purchased the car with the environment in mind. The fix will also decrease the power output which is another kettle of fish. Thirdly, rival companies will be on the warpath.

Who else sells small diesel cars in the US? Im tipping a lot. A lot of them will be sueing for lost sales because Volkswagen mislead the public on their product. Rival manufacturers may have had to alter their fuel economy and or their power to meet emissions. If the other manufactuers have proof they meet those conditions, Volkswagen will be bending over.

As far as "everyone else does it". Well prove it. Im sure a lot of engineers will be shitting their pants right about now though and asking some questions.

Yes its a bit of a beat up. But the US is the king of litigation and their environmental laws are really strict post 2009.

Germany will be in trouble if they fold because of this.

 

[mpower]

Big thing is that other companies do emissions differently, the majority use the adblu system - VW cheaped out, faked their results and got caught.

AdBlu Diesel Exhaust Fluid Aqueous Urea Solution Selective Catalytic Reduction DEF Carbon Emissions Nitrogen Oxides SCR NOx Essex Billericay Brentwood | Autus Web Design & Marketing

Maybe VW could use actual engineering like Mercedes.

http://cars.about.com/od/thingsyouneedtoknow/a/ag_BLUETEC.htm

 

[_R_J_K_]

For some odd reason electric cars here are protected. Tesla for example, receives tons of Tax Breaks, Grants and because EPA Cap and Trade they are eligible to sell their carbon credits to other manufacturers. Still, they still have a carbon footprint like any other manufacturer. The battery manufacturing pollute (not done in the USA) more than an assembly line that made the Hummer.

A bit of semantics, instead of burning fuel over the lifetime of the vehicle it's just been shifted to the production line.

I wouldn't be surprised if the carbon footprint from a Hummer assembly line is almost the same as the carbon footprint from some assembly line used to assemble fuel efficient 4cyl hatches.

 

[Grennan]

The Prius is a testment to that. Making the car and the battery for it is worse for the environment than my SS will ever be.

 

[Smitty]

It mightn't affect us as we don't have the EPA levels that some US states have, but the scale of the deception is significant. It's reported as a deliberate action taken to manipulate the programming of the engine management system with the explicit aim of meeting legal standards then reverting to normal operation at much higher emissions levels. Other manufacturers probably have done something similar, but the number of vehicles involved is reported at around half a million.

Plenty of "enviro-conscous" buyers are really ticked off that the environmentally friendly car they thought they bought isn't so friendly after all. Government fines might not amount to much, but if a reasonable percentage of buyers decide to take the matter up, it could be a very big class action, as already mentioned.


And don't the Yanks love litigation?

It will affect us....
listening to the 2pm news today…
and it was reported that ACCC have today started investigation into VW Australia for misleading conduct etc (under their set of consumer rules) …. plus the Commonwealth Dept of Infrastructure (responsible for administering ADRs, vehicle licencing etc) have asked VW Aust for proof that NO vehicle sold in Australia was fitted with the engines and the attached software that has popped up in USA and Europe (that has caused the storm over emissions non-compliance)

and REUTERS are reporting the latest from the USA as -
the US Feds (EPA & Dept of Transport) are looking to have VW remove ALL (yes.. ALL) 6 million vehicles involved off the roads. (this affects diesel vehicles sold from 2009 until now)
Customers will be told to return them to a VW dealer and they will not be allowed back out until complying engines and software are fitted.
If that is the case.. goodbye VW in the USA

 

[commodore665]

Misleading yes , but no one has died .

 

[mpower]

Misleading yes , but no one has died .

Fraud does not require deaths to be fraud.

 

[lmoengnr]

If you want a diesel, buy a truck.....

 

[commodore665]

The Prius is a testment to that. Making the car and the battery for it is worse for the environment than my SS will ever be.

I was recently berated filling up my Alfa Romeo by a Prius driver , I think he was abashed when I said it gets better mileage than a hybrid Toyota , and a lot less tragic .

 

[Not_An_Abba_Fan]

I think it was only 440 odd thousand VW's sold in the US that are affected. Other VW's around the world aren't relevant as they don't have to switch the software on to pass the tests, which would make a demand like that from the ACCC ridiculous. It's like saying a wild lion attacked a child in a remote African village, lets put all the lions down that are in Australia. Typical ACCC reaction. Wait until Tracy gets on ACA tonight. Although there are 11 million vehicles sold worldwide that have the technology, it's just not needed.

The software read input from steering and throttle, if there was no steering input over a designated time frame, the software would switch to "test mode". That's how I understood it to work.