wheel spacers

[IBLOWN]

Wheelspacers that have a location to fit the hub and a location to fit the wheel would be fine.

Depending on the width of the spacer, the studs would be fine if you stay within the 1.5D rule. 1.5 X the diameter of the thread gives you the minimum length of thread needed.

A Small amount of leverage transferred into the wheel bearing from a 5 or 10mm wide spacer would be negligable.

 

[Brett_jjj]

Wheelspacers that have a location to fit the hub and a location to fit the wheel would be fine.

Depending on the width of the spacer, the studs would be fine if you stay within the 1.5D rule. 1.5 X the diameter of the thread gives you the minimum length of thread needed.

A Small amount of leverage transferred into the wheel bearing from a 5 or 10mm wide spacer would be negligable.

If it is only a negligable amount, then why would it even get a mention in an auto engineers book, and why would most vehicle authorities make it illegal to use them if they arent dangerous or dont cause any harm etc? Im certainly no engineer, so Im not gonna get on here and make silly comments and guesses about something that I just dont know enough about. I posted up what was written in the auto engineers book, not what I "think" is right.

 

[IBLOWN]

If it is only a negligable amount, then why would it even get a mention in an auto engineers book, and why would most vehicle authorities make it illegal to use them if they arent dangerous or dont cause any harm etc? Im certainly no engineer, so Im not gonna get on here and make silly comments and guesses about something that I just dont know enough about. I posted up what was written in the auto engineers book, not what I "think" is right.

Well Engineering is what i do for a living. Dont assume...

You need to understand how old school Engineers work. Theres only one way to skin a cat, their way or the highway, and nothing will change their minds. I deal with them everyday. Very closed minded people, if something has the potential of being the tiniest bit unsafe you just cant do it, its all blown out of proportion to cover their arses. This doesnt mean you CANT do it, doesnt mean it wont still last forever.

Anyway, did the book mention at what point a spacer becomes unsafe? i.e what thickness? Anything spaced out over that would start to have an ill effect, but i did say "5 to 10MM" would be "Negligable", meaning there WILL be extra load but not enough to worry about. Parts arent designed and ran in a car at their limit. Theres always a tolerance...

 

[Cheap6]

Stay away from them just made that mistake bought for $25.00 Autobarn 5 Stud last weekend put them on read the forum decided I must be nuts but the shock was that when I went to take the wheel nuts off that I tightened when I put them on had in 1 or 2 of them worked lose not finger lose but definitely lose so just imagine if I had gone left them n for longer No Stay Away from Them

I would be looking at the wheel studs (the thread near the hub). The nuts were probably loose because the studs have stretched.

Is this really that much different to putting a low offset wheel on though?

With bolt on spacers the effects on the suspension geometry and wheel bearing loads will be similar to obtaining the same wheel centreline position by using wheels with a different offset (and unlikely to be good).

And was this talking about slip on's or bolt on's? I don't really bother with slip on's, as most of them don't have a hubcentric lip, and I think that would put a lot of strain on the studs.

I've had to run bolt on's for about 2 years with an effective offset of 8.5 +13 for brake clearance. In fact I even bent a wheel, and I thought that would break the spacer. Nope, bent the strut instead.

Bolt on spacers can avoid the problem of bending wheel studs.

had them on my VS.. slip on's - as stated stay away from them.. from what I can tell because they were made of Aluminium when they get hot they expand, when cooled down again they contract, this making the wheel nuts loose. This is my theory as to why I broke a few on each rear wheel... and before I get the (it was the weight that made them snap) it wasnt, I had put in longer studs, but you can see in the rim (where the studs bolt thru) the holes were rounded/oval kind of where the wheel had been alloud to move loose. Not all were snapped, but replaced all 10 and took the spacers off.. these were just 5mm ones IIRC.. put on some bolt on 25 spacers to have a look when I put beema springs in the back, that **** was hulla-flush.. didnt leave em in thou...

I think you will find that something had to yield (permanently stretch or bend) for the wheel nuts to loosen. Free floating spacers allow a bending load in the wheel studs. Fasteners are (meant to be) used to provide clamping force not location.

Well Engineering is what i do for a living. Dont assume...

You need to understand how old school Engineers work. Theres only one way to skin a cat, their way or the highway, and nothing will change their minds. I deal with them everyday. Very closed minded people, if something has the potential of being the tiniest bit unsafe you just cant do it, its all blown out of proportion to cover their arses. This doesnt mean you CANT do it, doesnt mean it wont still last forever.

Anyway, did the book mention at what point a spacer becomes unsafe? i.e what thickness? Anything spaced out over that would start to have an ill effect, but i did say "5 to 10MM" would be "Negligable", meaning there WILL be extra load but not enough to worry about. Parts arent designed and ran in a car at their limit. Theres always a tolerance...

Granted, you can use up some of the safety factor built into the design of parts.

My major objection to wheel spacers is not that they break the studs (a bolt on spacer can solve that problem) but that they mess with the steering and suspension geometry. It's plain stupid to compromise the practicality of a car for looks and misguided to think that simply moving the wheel centre line alone is a good thing (a wide track is good if the suspension is designed with it at that width) .

 

[Brett_jjj]

Well Engineering is what i do for a living. Dont assume...

You need to understand how old school Engineers work. Theres only one way to skin a cat, their way or the highway, and nothing will change their minds. I deal with them everyday. Very closed minded people, if something has the potential of being the tiniest bit unsafe you just cant do it, its all blown out of proportion to cover their arses. This doesnt mean you CANT do it, doesnt mean it wont still last forever.

Anyway, did the book mention at what point a spacer becomes unsafe? i.e what thickness? Anything spaced out over that would start to have an ill effect, but i did say "5 to 10MM" would be "Negligable", meaning there WILL be extra load but not enough to worry about. Parts arent designed and ran in a car at their limit. Theres always a tolerance...

Yeah, the book I read this from was from the 60's or 70's im guessing, you dont get much more old school than that, it was years ago when I saw it, it had a whole paragrah on the subject of wheels axles,etc and I remember reading a part about wheel spacers, a mates dad was a former engineer/vehicle designer of some sort and he had it at his house..
Its the same old story, you say your a qualified automotive engineer, and you say it ok to use them, or theyre not that dangerous or whatever, and then on the other hand, the book was written by qualified automotive engineers who say theyre dangerous, who is right?? Id say, that because theyve been ruled illegal to use in a lot of places, it must mean that theres a lot of other automotive engineers around who must also think theyre dangerous or whatever....The bolt on type wheel spacers were probably not around back when the book was written anyway.

 

[IBLOWN]

Yeah, the book I read this from was from the 60's or 70's im guessing, you dont get much more old school than that, it was years ago when I saw it, it had a whole paragrah on the subject of wheels axles,etc and I remember reading a part about wheel spacers, a mates dad was a former engineer/vehicle designer of some sort and he had it at his house..
Its the same old story, you say your a qualified automotive engineer, and you say it ok to use them, or theyre not that dangerous or whatever, and then on the other hand, the book was written by qualified automotive engineers who say theyre dangerous, who is right?? Id say, that because theyve been ruled illegal to use in a lot of places, it must mean that theres a lot of other automotive engineers around who must also think theyre dangerous or whatever....The bolt on type wheel spacers were probably not around back when the book was written anyway.

Yeah like i said, it depends on the width of the spacer and the way the spacer locates. Ive never used spacers before, but i'd use them if i had to without any worry at all provided they were of a minimum width.

You also cant just generalise spacers by saying theyre dangerous for any car. Every car has different suspension load ratings, material, geometery ect. Might be unsafe for a 1970's datsun lol, but on a commodore? Meh.

 

[IBLOWN]

I would be looking at the wheel studs (the thread near the hub). The nuts were probably loose because the studs have stretched.



With bolt on spacers the effects on the suspension geometry and wheel bearing loads will be similar to obtaining the same wheel centreline position by using wheels with a different offset (and unlikely to be good).



Bolt on spacers can avoid the problem of bending wheel studs.



I think you will find that something had to yield (permanently stretch or bend) for the wheel nuts to loosen. Free floating spacers allow a bending load in the wheel studs. Fasteners are (meant to be) used to provide clamping force not location.



Granted, you can use up some of the safety factor built into the design of parts.

My major objection to wheel spacers is not that they break the studs (a bolt on spacer can solve that problem) but that they mess with the steering and suspension geometry. It's plain stupid to compromise the practicality of a car for looks and misguided to think that simply moving the wheel centre line alone is a good thing (a wide track is good if the suspension is designed with it at that width) .

Thats right, its not going to drive the same, but it depends on what youre after. Looks or driveability. Its up to the owner really.

Floating spacers are a completely stupid idea lol. Its totally rediculous to run them on any car without them being located on the hub and wheel. Crazy stuff.