S1 Head specs? (valve springs specifically)

[chrrr]

I am after the Installed height of the valve springs, and there tension at said height also, I would like to compare these to my vr ones.

Does anyone know the specs of these? or if someone could even upload a scan of a page found in the Gregory’s/Haynes manuals?

Thanks!

[immortality]

the only thing it says in my manual is installed height: 42.93-44.45mm (gregories)

the s1 has the double valve springs

Ahh, the haynes manual has more

VN

closed
outer 280-307N @43.9mm
inner 164-182N @43.9mm
combined 444-489N
or 100-110lbs

open

outer 618-681N @ 31.9mm
inner 334-369N @ 31.9mm
combined 952-1050N
or 214-236lbs

VP-VR

closed 338-374N @ 43.7mm
open 890-979N @ 33.4mm
or
76-84lbs
200-220lbs


VN-VR installed heights as above

looking at those numbers the VN s1 double springs are fair bit heavier on the seat but about the same at max lift

cheers

edit 100 newtons = 22.48 lbs ????

edit2: everything in italics are calculations i've added

[bjland3]

I like the forum and I am interested in the topic.

[immortality]

I wouldn't bother with stock springs, get some decent ones and you'll be safe knowing you'll have no valve bounce coming onto the limiter (i'm sure you want to go to 7000rpm on a stock bottom end)

And get a decent timing chain to go with em

edit: how much lift are you running on that custom cam you have?

[chrrr]

I got the same grind as my brothers vb, accept he has a series 1 engine, mines series 2 (vr). its 222@50 300lift (465). once I stuck it in, the rods were to short, fixed that with some lash caps (will get longer rods later maybe) but now the springs are almost binding up, turning into a bloody nightmare! looks like I need new springs now also, wanted to see if I could just use series 1 ones.

(have new timing chain now!)

[immortality]

Stock springs on a 3800 V6 should be good for .520" lift

.300" lobe lift with standard 1.6 rockers = .480" lift so you should ok

edit: how much clearance have you got before coil bind @ max lift

That cam grind does seem to work well.

[immortality]

I have a complete set of s1 valve springs/retainers etc however i have no idea how soft they are, they have 250,xxxkm's on em and the last thing they did before i pulled the engine out was bounce em on the limiter for a couple of minutes until the rear tyre was fried

[chrrr]

I'll see how it goes, delco reckons they're not looking to great at the mo, I do have a donor engine that I can raid em from if need be however.

[delcowizzid]

haha yeah she doesnt look good considering with a hydraulic lifter it very nearly coil binds will have to fit the solid lifter in and check how close they get must be a shitload of meat taken off the base

[immortality]

Must have more then .300" lobe lift.

[delcowizzid]

i reackon he may have the cam thats meant to go in the altered LOL or just the fact its an s2 cam with a profile that came off a series1 reground cam .i might buy a dial gauge this week

[immortality]

Better check how far the lifters come out of the bottom of the lifter bores and make sure the oil groove isn't uncovered.

They must have ground of a shit load if the push rods are that short

[westerlybreeze]

I got the same grind as my brothers vb, accept he has a series 1 engine, mines series 2 (vr). its 222@50 300lift (465). once I stuck it in, the rods were to short, fixed that with some lash caps (will get longer rods later maybe) but now the springs are almost binding up, turning into a bloody nightmare! looks like I need new springs now also, wanted to see if I could just use series 1 ones.

(have new timing chain now!)

How thick are the "Lash caps" .. not too thick are they? as that'd take up all the lifters preload and cause excessive lift, coil bind and even stop the valve returning to it's seat.
Lash caps or better - longer push rods should equal the amount that was removed from the camshafts base circle.

And yes, how much lobe lift does the cam you have actually have?


New springs

- Crow Cams Valve Springs #

- Valve Springs #

[immortality]

You also need to keep an eye on your valve train geometry

New springs

- Crow Cams Valve Springs #

- Valve Springs #

To use those springs you will have to find the correct retainers to suit. The retainers ZZP/MACE supply are to suit 8mm valve stems (ecotec).

[chrrr]

Lash caps are 0.080 which is meant to add 0.050 so should be the same as going from 7.950 to 8.000 rods?

Cam specs are here:


it's getting to the point now where im just considering throwing cam away and going back to a stock cam, or perhaps trying another camshop even. someone that can do me a grind that will actually work.

[immortality]

Seems a bit odd, that cam was fine in the other engine? If delco does get a dial gauge i'd be checking the total lift. Stock rockers are 1.6:1 not 1.55 but it should still be well within the maximum lift range of the standard springs.

How much clearance do you have between the valve spring coils at max lift?

[delcowizzid]

measured today with a solid lifter 100% coil bind at max lift dial gauge on way to check lift so we can get it remidied

[immortality]

Yeah, it sound like it has a lot more lift then the cam card says

[delcowizzid]

cam coil bind ouch

manifold goodness

[immortality]

Looking good guys, should go like stink. Be interesting to see how that manifold goes

[chrrr]

le update:

The wizzid, together with the dial gauge turned a bolt and writ down some numbers on a sheet. The lift worked out to be a tad over 300, with the hydraulic lifters it looks like that side of it will be fine. But... apparently the duration at 0.050 is all up the wack, along with a pile of other acronyms. I'll let him post his findings.

The manifold has gone back to Mr. Tig to get the last bits done on it, a plate at the back so we can thread in brass fittings for vacuum, the iac sensor fitting been stuck on, and a slab of alloy on the side so a throttle cable mount can be crafted up.

Getting close now!

[delcowizzid]

yip seems we are safe from coil bind with a little over 60 though coil clearance all up so can stop stressing there.but duration on the other hand is ummm massive LOL 284/290@0.050 shes gonna be lumpy and after simming it up on some dyno software should make power all the way to 7500 at some 650+hp so springs will be the next purchase and some head porting LOL

[westerlybreeze]

yip seems we are safe from coil bind with a little over 60 though coil clearance all up so can stop stressing there.but duration on the other hand is ummm massive LOL 284/290@0.050 shes gonna be lumpy and after simming it up on some dyno software should make power all the way to 7500 at some 650+hp so springs will be the next purchase and some head porting LOL

Along with some High tensile at the very least!

You still on holiday Delco?

[delcowizzid]

haha nothing my head guy cant fix

[immortality]

Gonna need some decent hardware in the bottom end to make it live at those rpms.