VT V6 Hi-stall. yah or nah?

[showbags]

Got a VT Calais V6 with all the usual bolt on mods and I'm thinking of a 2500 hi stall rather than going to 3.7 or 3.9 diff gears. I do a fair few high way miles. I've already got 3.45 LSD. Please discuss.

[chargedvx6]

Even though the diff gears will shift/ help the power band a tad unless you have a heads/ cam and or F/I add on the stock stall will be fine.

Stall speed or rpm does shift higher up in the rev range if more power is being made

[Munz]

I wouldn't...with the cost of the stall you could use the money for something worthwhile - but if your a 'drag queen' it might be worth it

[immortality]

For $395 for a 2500rpm stall converter I'd seriously consider it, see Holden Commodore VN/VX Hi Stall Torque Converter | eBay (figure it was designed to suit a cam'd engine so the actual stall speed may be a little lower on a bolt on mod type engine)

Stall speed or rpm does shift higher up in the rev range if more power is being made

You would need a decent increase in torque to have any noticeable change in stall speed.


Considering he already has 3.45 gears I think fitting a decent converter is a good option if you don't want to step up to 3.9 gears but still want improved take-off performance. The converter in the link above still has full lock up function so cruising economy will not be effected. Modern high stall converters behave much like stock converters until you give the go pedal a decent jab, then it will flash stall and put a smile on your face.

If I could get that converter here in NZ for that price I would already have it behind my almost stock V6

[acarmody]

How hard are they to install?

Obviously you would have to drop the tranny, but I don't have a tranny lift or anything.

[immortality]

You would need to drop the tranny out to swap the converter. Although i've never tried it (because I don't have a tranny lifter), if there is enough room, you could simply unbolt the tranny, slide it back as far as it will go (on a jack or tranny lifter etc) and see if you can slip the converter out without having to drop the entire tranny down on the ground. If so then you can simply slip the new converter in (make sure it's engaged properly) and fit the tranny back up to the engine block without having to remove the coolant lines/cables etc. Would be much easier.

[sixes]

Swapping out the converter is easy. You will be able to do it with a set of tall axle stands but will still be a squeeze.

You don't need a tranny jack but be VERY careful if you use a normal jack. Use a block of wood and take your time. Ensure all cables, dipstick tube are free of the box before removing.

Before install:
Have everything clean before install,
Check the ring gear on the flex plate for any damage,
Use a good quality thread locker on the flex plate bolts,
Flush all the old oil out and change the filter,
Put new ATF fluid into the converter before installing it (It won't take the oil quick so fill it slowly),
Make sure the converter is engaged before mounting it back up!!! You will hear a couple of clicks as it engages (Google for how its done properly),

As for the stall, there are a number of websites that will allow you to choose your stall depending on what gear you currently have. I would be asking the seller about the complete details of the stall before buying it as there are a number of things that will effect how the stall operates. Its not just bang a stall in and go for gold, not all stalls are the same.

Good luck

[showbags]

I've got a 4 post hoist, so dropping the tranny in and out isn't an issue. I was more concerned with day to day drivability.

[immortality]

I've got a 4 post hoist, so dropping the tranny in and out isn't an issue. I was more concerned with day to day drivability.

Contact the supplier from the ebay listing. They are a converter shop and seem to know what they are talking about. He should be able to tell you exactly how it will behave.

Cheers

[chargedvx6]

You would need a decent increase in torque to have any noticeable change in stall speed.

Exactly. That is why I would recommend not spending on an aftermarket stall converter unless his has actually failed.

A N/A ecotec is very torquey and if you increase the stall rpm you may give away a few hundred rpm of that good torque.

I'd be inclined to accessorise the engine further and imo you will get better gains for the same amount of money the stall would cost you. No point discarding a perfectly good and very well designed stock torque converter. The key to modding a daily imo is to utilise as many good oem parts as possible. The trick is to recognise which ones are good and which ones aren't so good lol

[showbags]

You would need a decent increase in torque to have any noticeable change in stall speed.

Exactly. That is why I would recommend not spending on an aftermarket stall converter unless his has actually failed.

A N/A ecotec is very torquey and if you increase the stall rpm you may give away a few hundred rpm of that good torque.

I'd be inclined to accessorise the engine further and imo you will get better gains for the same amount of money the stall would cost you. No point discarding a perfectly good and very well designed stock torque converter. The key to modding a daily imo is to utilise as many good oem parts as possible. The trick is to recognise which ones are good and which ones aren't so good lol

I'm pretty much at the end if bolt on mods, the next step is either big cam or charger. Either way I'm most likely gunna need more stall speed anyway.

[immortality]

Exactly. That is why I would recommend not spending on an aftermarket stall converter unless his has actually failed.

A N/A ecotec is very torquey and if you increase the stall rpm you may give away a few hundred rpm of that good torque.

I'd be inclined to accessorise the engine further and imo you will get better gains for the same amount of money the stall would cost you. No point discarding a perfectly good and very well designed stock torque converter. The key to modding a daily imo is to utilise as many good oem parts as possible. The trick is to recognise which ones are good and which ones aren't so good lol

See, now I tend to disagree, the ecotec isn't that torquey and I don't think the stock converter is that great either. Throttle response is rather poor on a stock ecotec. Converter choice is really application specific, the stock converter is good for economy as well as any stock converter can be but for any performance perspective the stock converter can be improved up on. From a completely performance perspective you really want the stall speed of the converter to be at peak torque. I know this isn't something the V6 crowd have used much but the V8 guys use some decent high stalls (4000rpm+) and these modern high stalls are fairly drivable on the street.

Like I said before, a good modern high stall converter will act much like the stock converter until you mash the go pedal. 2500rpm isn't that high and I would suggest that that particular converter will probably stall a few hundred rpm less so it's not a huge jump from the stock stall speed.

edit: I have emailed supplier in the link provided earlier. Might take a few days but then we will get the suppliers advice regarding converter behaviour and stall speed.

[showbags]

Thanx Immortality, that's what I was after.

[westerlybreeze]

I have a modified Ecotec, torque converter flash stall is now 3000rpm with 3.7 final drive, 10.5:1C/R and Stage 2 cam and I think it's


Bart I have a spare stock converter

[showbags]

I have a modified Ecotec, torque converter flash stall is now 3000rpm with 3.7 final drive, 10.5:1C/R and Stage 2 cam and I think it's


Bart I have a spare stock converter

What converter have you got that gives you that flash stall?

[westerlybreeze]

What converter have you got that gives you that flash stall?

Oops.. I ment to say - Modified stock Ecotec torque converter.

[showbags]

What converter have you got that gives you that flash stall?

Oops.. I ment to say - Modified stock Ecotec torque converter.

Hmmm, what is this modified stock converter you speak of???

[immortality]

Hmmm, what is this modified stock converter you speak of???

Basically they cut open a standard converter and play with the internals. There are limits to how much you can do and it's a bit of a compromise but for us here in NZ it works out a LOT cheaper then one of those high stall converters from the ebay link (they want NZ $895+ for the exact same converter here from a local agent).

[immortality]

I have a modified Ecotec, torque converter flash stall is now 3000rpm with 3.7 final drive, 10.5:1C/R and Stage 2 cam and I think it's


Bart I have a spare stock converter

Ahh you got the engine finished, sweet.

Going well by the sound of things, was that the MACE Comp Cams stage 2 grind? Should be a ripper with the 3000rpm stally What have you set the shift points at?

Just emailed a guy about a trans, if I can get it, then I can rebuilt it and put a modified standard converter in at the same time. Let us know what you want for the standard converter

Cheers

[westerlybreeze]

Ahh you got the engine finished, sweet.

Going well by the sound of things, was that the MACE Comp Cams stage 2 grind? Should be a ripper with the 3000rpm stally What have you set the shift points at?

Just emailed a guy about a trans, if I can get it, then I can rebuilt it and put a modified standard converter in at the same time. Let us know what you want for the standard converter

Cheers

Hi Bart, Cam is a Franklins regrind (.497" lift with 1.6 RR, 220/220 @ 0.050", 112LSA). I have Ben aka ejukated "The King of MAF tuning" tuning for me. He's done a quick road tune for the cam, LS1 MAF and changed some shift points. Also how the lockup works for the torque converter, it disengages with less throttle to take advantage of the higher stall.
Looking forward to him doing a proper tune in January.

Re Std torque converter.. make me an offer .. could drop it off to Torque converter specialists if you like.

[immortality]

Hi Bart, Cam is a Franklins regrind (.497" lift with 1.6 RR, 220/220 @ 0.050", 112LSA). I have Ben aka ejukated "The King of MAF tuning" tuning for me. He's done a quick road tune for the cam, LS1 MAF and changed some shift points. Also how the lockup works for the torque converter, it disengages with less throttle to take advantage of the higher stall.
Looking forward to him doing a proper tune in January.

Re Std torque converter.. make me an offer .. could drop it off to Torque converter specialists if you like.

Sweet, I may have to take you up on that offer shortly.

How you finding the converter when just cruising? You probably what to put the rev limiter @ 7000rpm with that cam and shift points a few hundred rpm lower.

[westerlybreeze]

Sweet, I may have to take you up on that offer shortly.

How you finding the converter when just cruising? You probably what to put the rev limiter @ 7000rpm with that cam and shift points a few hundred rpm lower.

Good. Doesn't loose tooo much efficiency.. it still has lockup in 3rd & 4th under approximately 20% throttle.
WOT shift points still 5000rpm I think.. I'll ask Ben to change them.

Can take you for a spin if you like

[showbags]

Hmmm, what is this modified stock converter you speak of???

Basically they cut open a standard converter and play with the internals. There are limits to how much you can do and it's a bit of a compromise but for us here in NZ it works out a LOT cheaper then one of those high stall converters from the ebay link (they want NZ $895+ for the exact same converter here from a local agent).

Ahhh, now I understand. As normal you kiwi's get torn a new one on Aussie imported gear.

[immortality]

Good. Doesn't loose tooo much efficiency.. it still has lockup in 3rd & 4th under approximately 20% throttle.
WOT shift points still 5000rpm I think.. I'll ask Ben to change them.

Can take you for a spin if you like

Maybe wait till he has the tune sorted, that way you'll see where peak power is and set limiter/shift points to suit but i'd think that at 5000rpm that cam is only just starting to sing

Ahhh, now I understand. As normal you kiwi's get torn a new one on Aussie imported gear.

Fairly much we get torn a new one regardless where it comes from if it's retail through a local supplier

Unfortunately shipping on a item like that is killer as well. Landed here in NZ (with exchange rate in mind) we are still looking at NZ$750+

[immortality]

Ok, so I emailed the ebay supplier regarding the 2500rpm stall converter.

Question:

Hi, Thinking about using this converter on a stock V6 with basic bolt on mods (mostly MACE). Engine has approx 12-15% more torque then standard from idle. How would this converter behave with this engine.

Answer :

Gday this will work fine we will build it to suit your car. it will give you more punch of the line .
Kind Regards James CV

So it's just not a simple "off the shelf" converter, Looks like value for money to me

cheers