Desktop Dyno 2003 Engine Simulation Software

[beardy91]

If any of you guys are interested in some great engine simulation software called Desktop Dyno 2003 with ProTools PM me and I will try and send you a copy. This software shows horsepower and torque readings and is great when comparing different mods eg. cams, exhaust setups, throttlebodies, nitrous, turbos, superchargers and head porting. With ProTools it can make thousands of different simulations and giving you either the best engine combination or the best 10 different combinations. You can get it to ask for either peak horsepower or torque, or a range of best horsepower or torque from 2000 rpm upwards to 11000 rpm. Horsepower ranges from 0 to 1000 HP and torque ranges from 0 to 1000 foot pounds.

The power and torque calculated is at the flywheel and after experimenting with the program and comparing it in real life the results are extreamely accurate if you put the correct figures into the simulator.

I also have another engine simulation software called Desktop Dyno 2000 with is the predecessor to Desktop Dyno 2003. Both of these programs are great and unbelieveable in coming up with the right engine combination BEFORE you spend your hard earned cash on parts that may not give you the best power and/or torque that you are after.

I have done some simulations on just camshafts available from Crom Cams for the EcoTech V6 and have made some great gains in both power and torque just by playing around with the camshaft. You can also simulate on where the best place to dial in your cam and I have found as a general rule that the EcoTech wants the cam retarded by five degrees.

So if you are interested in either or both of these engine simulation software programs, please PM me.

[bundysmurf]

Any idea where I could find ecotec engine specs etc. to drop into this program???

[johnvtls1]

i wouldnt mind a copy mate

[beardy91]

Check out the same thread in V8 Development and Modification. It answers alot of your questions.

[beardy91]

V6 Ecotech Standard Head Flow Figures from Kostecki Engine Centre here in WA

Stock V6 Head with 3 angle competition valve job

Intake tested at 28" H2O corrected to 2.0" H2O - valve diameter 1.786 inches, stem diameter 0.342 inches, port area 1.79 square inches

Exhaust tested at 28" H2O corrected to 10.0" H2O - valve diameter 1.508 inches, stem diameter 0.342 inches, port area 1.42 square inches

INTAKE
Lift CFM
0.050 8.7
0.075 12.0
0.100 16.9
0.150 25.1
0.175 29.5
0.200 32.8
0.250 38.9
0.275 41.0
0.300 42.9
0.350 46.0
0.400 48.3
0.450 49.6
0.500 50.0


EXHAUST
Lift CFM
0.050 12.0
0.075 20.4
0.100 29.4
0.150 50.5
0.175 57.5
0.200 63.4
0.250 76.2
0.275 81.7
0.300 85.0
0.350 88.5
0.400 90.2
0.450 92.2
0.500 93.0

Standard Bore = 3.800 inches
Standard Stroke = 3.400 inches
Cylinder Head Flow = Use figures stated as above
Standard Intake Valve diameter = 1.786 inches
Standard Exhaust Valve diameter = 1.508 inches
Standard Compression Ratio = 9.35 to 1
Standard 64mm Throttle Body Induction Flow = 501 CFM @ 1.5inHg
Standard Fuel Type = Gasoline
Standard Manifold Type = Tuned Port Injection
Standard Exhaust Manifold Type = Stock Manifolds and Mufflers
Camshaft = use all camshaft specs off your camcard from camshaft manufacturer.

By putting these figures into the simulator (either Desktop Dyno 2000 or Desktop Dyno 2003) you get your horsepower and torque figures displayed either in a chart or on a graph, your choice.

Simple and easy to use and as I have found very accurate (within 2 horsepower and 3 foot pounds of torque) on the Holden EcoTech V6.

[immortality]

don't suppose you have the standard cam specs also?

cheers

[beardy91]

I am working on those right at the moment as the figures I found for spanners which were straight out of the Holden Specys book included all the opening and closing ramps and that is why Desktop Dyno thinks the cam is too big. I am in the process of degreeing a standard cam in the EcoTech engine, the Series One engine and the Series Two engine at the moment and will post the results as soon as I have them.

[beardy91]

As promised, here are the Standard Cam Timings for the VN Series 1 V6 Engine:

Advertised Valve Timing at height - 0.006 inches
Inlet Opens - 22.4 degrees BTDC
Inlet Closes - 66.9 degrees ABDC
Exhaust Opens - 70.7 degrees BBDC
Exhaust Closes - 26.2 degrees ATDC
Inlet Valve Duration - 269.3 degrees
Exhaust Valve Duration - 276.9 degrees
Inlet Valve Lift with 1.6 to 1 ratio rockers - 0.4376 inches
Exhaust Valve Lift with 1.6 to 1 ratio rockers - 0.4373 inches
Inlet Valve Lift at TDC - 0.0336 inches

0.050 Valve Timing
Inlet Opens - minus 15.3 degrees BTDC (15.3 degrees ATDC)
Inlet Closes - 29.2 degrees ABDC
Exhaust Opens - 30.4 degrees BBDC
Exhaust Closes - minus 14.2 degrees ATDC (14.2 degrees BTDC)
Inlet Valve Duration - 193.9 degrees
Exhaust Valve Duration - 196.2 degrees
Inlet Valve Lift with 1.6 to 1 ratio rockers - 0.4376 inches
Exhaust Valve Lift with 1.6 to 1 ratio rockers - 0.4373 inches
Lobe Separation Angle - 112.3 degrees
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Standard Cam Timings for the VN-VP-VR-early VS Series Two V6 Engine:

Advertised Valve Timing at height - 0.006 inches
Inlet Opens - 9.8 degrees BTDC
Inlet Closes - 52.1 degrees ABDC
Exhaust Opens - 56.8 degrees BBDC
Exhaust Closes - 14.5 degrees ATDC
Inlet Valve Duration - 241.9 degrees
Exhaust Valve Duration - 251.3 degrees
Inlet Valve Lift with 1.6 to 1 ratio rockers - 0.4066 inches
Exhaust Valve Lift with 1.6 to 1 ratio rockers - 0.4083 inches
Inlet Valve Lift at TDC - 0.0256 inches

0.050 Valve Timing
Inlet Opens - minus 20.9 degrees BTDC (20.9 degrees ATDC)
Inlet Closes - 21.4 degrees ABDC
Exhaust Opens - 26.1 degrees BBDC
Exhaust Closes - minus 16.2 degrees ATDC (16.2 degrees BTDC)
Inlet Valve Duration - 180.5 degrees
Exhaust Valve Duration - 189.9 degrees
Inlet Valve Lift with 1.6 ratio rockers - 0.4066 inches
Exhaust Valve Lift with 1.6 ratio rockers - 0.4083 inches
Lobe Separation Angle - 111.2 degrees
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Standard Valve Timing for late VS-VT-VX-VY EcoTech V6 Engine

Advertised Valve Lift at height - 0.006 inches
Inlet Opens - 6.7 degrees BTDC
Inlet Closes - 57.0 degrees ABDC
Exhaust Opens - 65.3 degrees BBDC
Exhaust Closes - 15.1 degrees ATDC
Inlet Valve Duration - 243.7 degrees
Exhaust Valve Duration - 260.4 degrees
Inlet Valve Lift with 1.6 to 1 ratio rockers - 0.4099 inches
Exhaust Valve Lift with 1.6 to 1 ratio rockers - 0.4112 inches
Inlet Valve Lift at TDC - 0.0208 inches

0.050 Valve Timing
Inlet Opens - minus 24.4 degrees BTDC (24.4 degrees ATDC)
Inlet Closes - 25.8 degrees ABDC
Exhaust Opens - 31.6 degrees BBDC
Exhaust Closes - minus 18.7 degrees ATDC (18.7 degrees BTDC)
Inlet Valve Duration - 181.4 degrees
Exhaust Valve Duration - 192.9 degrees
Inlet Valve Lift with 1.6 to 1 ratio rockers - 0.4099 inches
Exhaust Valve Lift with 1.6 to 1 ratio rockers - 0.4112 inches
Lobe Separation Angle - 115.1 degrees
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I hope all these cam timings are of help to you all and they will be invaluable when comparing an aftermarket camshaft to the standard one that Holden used originally in these engines.

[beardy91]

I have been asked by a few people in how does this program actually work. The best way to answer this question is to have a look and read the User Manual that I have. The User Manual is self explanitary and is easy to understand. To get a copy of any of the User Manuals, for either Desktop Dyno 2003 with ProTools Engine Simulation Software or Desktop Dyno 2000 Engine Simulation Software, please PM me with your email address and I will email a copy of it to you. I have tried to put it on this thread but the file size is too big to put on.

[TheForgotten]

hey that sounds great. i wouldn't mind a copy if you're still handing them out

[falokun]

i am interested. please e-mail it to me.

[ScoHar]

hey mate put me down.

[vn calais manual]

bit of a dig guys..

[ScoHar]

ah LOL so it is, im good at not checking dates.

[pt72supra]

Gonna have to say DD is like something I wrote in Quickbasic only without the fancy mouse interface.

The most realistic program is Engine Analyzer V3.5 right now that you can buy off shelf. Outside of this you'll need GM propritary or SAE software, which you'll never get or get enough data to even get it to work right.

My friend owns a shop and bought 3.5 I've spent probably over 150 hours on that software, well at least when you combine all the versions he's had.

Lets put it this way.

About 9 years ago using an older version, when NO ONE was running turbos on the L67( your supercharged 3.8 ecotec) I designed my turbo kit on this program and came within 4 WHP.

What I did was, I took the blower off of my Grand Prix GTP, and ran on the NA manifold with the low 8.5:1 compression, and used the timing I wanted to use for boost ( a low number ), I used all my MAF data to determine what turbo I wanted to use, and decided a T62-1 .81 AR was the best choice on a T4 flange, for a stock motor. Everyone opposed this saying GN guys run this, and GN guys run that but I said guys I have the data...

fast fwd, point being, its a powerful tool, I was properly able to bench race with this, and I do still to this day, and I've benched raced to much I'm able to figure out what car I want to buy based on its mod potential...

After I bought my Supra, I now needed a daily, and I bought a vehicle with the 3.6 Alloytec, that motor will be a MONSTER if somone wanted to build it.

Bah sorry for the all over the place post I was trying to type it over the course of 30 minutes while busy at work!