V6 Crankshaft Info

[Blown V6 Hatch]

Hi everyone

Seeing as there are so many people that ask about the V6 Crankshafts for manual conversions, i thought i would make a thread with all the crankshafts and pics of them. Anyway, this should have enough info to help everyone out, however if you have any questions just ask and i should be able to answer them for you.

Ok, The below picture is of a VN V6 series 1 manual crank, it can be identified by the large 6 bolt rear flange that protudes from the block, this crank runs its own flywheel that is NOT interchangable with VN Series 2-VR & Ecotec Auto or VN series 2-VR & Ecotec Manual. This Crank can NOT be converted to auto unless you change the crank to an auto item.



The below picture is a VN V6 series 1 Auto crank, it can be identified by its small 6 bolt rear flange which is flush with the rear of the block. This Crankshaft CAN be converted to Manual by way of an adaptor (that accepts the standard VN series 1 manual flywheel) or a complete custom flywheel as offered by CRS (make sure you get it balanced). You can NOT convert this crank to manual by using a standard GM flywheel without an adaptor. This is the ONLY auto crank that will not interchange auto flexplates with the later VN Series 2-VR & Ecotec cranks.



The below picture is a VN Series 2-VR Crank, it can be identified by its 8 bolt rear flange that sits flush with the rear of the blocks. These cranks will all interchange both manual flywheels & auto flexplates. If you are doing an auto to manual conversion, this is by far the easiest & best one to do.



The below picture is of an Ecotec & L67 crank, it can be identified by its 8 bolt rear flange crankshaft (which is the same bolt pattern as VN Series 2-VR cranks) and alloy rear main seal plate that bolts to the block. The Ecotec's & L67's will interchange manual flywheels & auto flexplates with the earlier VN Series 2-VR cranks. However, they have a different balance so if you are doing a manual conversion on an Ecotec make sure you get it mirror balanced with the auto flexplate that comes off the Ecotec (absolutely crucial on L67's). Ecotecs did come from the factory with the dual mass flywheel, but if you are doing a manual conversion on one you are better off using the earlier solid flywheel but if you do get hold of an Ecotec manual conversion it will all bolt up to your auto Ecotec.



Now when it comes to manual gearbox's, the T5's are all the same from VN to VS and will all directly interchange.

Hope all this helps.

[immortality]

nice, that should stop the debates on the issue. good info

for further reference, the standard ratios for the V6 T5 box are:

1st: 3.25:1
2nd: 1.99:1
3rd: 1.29:1
4th: 1:1
5th: .72:1

i was gonna add that this should be stickied but somebody already has. excellent

[Rhino Racing]

That is fantastic info guys! WELL DONE!
I sure wish i was able to find this sort of thing when i was looking 2 years ago regarding flywheels!
I can add a little bit of info aswell that hopefully will also be helpful to someone down the track!
Here goes!

Here is some info regarding the differences in flywheels.
The series 1 vn came out with a 6 bolt centre.The pcd is Approx 90 mm and weighs 10.1 kg.The flywheel has a bias weight on the back of it..... so it is unbalanced.( to help balance the motor) One bolt hole is slightly different ( offset) to the others so it can only go on one way.

Series 2 flywheel is a 8 bolt centre. The pcd is Approx 65 mm and weighs less than 9.2 kgs. This flywheel is balanced.
Series 2 engine has a shorter crank by approx 30 mm. So the shape of the back of the flywheel is different.
I had machined up a spacer ( 1 kg) that would allow me to fit the series 1 flywheel to the series 2 motor.....
Only trouble is it means that i would be running a flywheel that is 2 kg heavier than standard series 2..... totally wrong for my application.... if i have got to run this i may as well keep the race car in the shed........ wont get the thing to rev how i need it too.

Holden australia do not have one of these.
Catlemain rod shop was the answer!
Ring the guys at THE CASTLEMAINE ROD SHOP near melbourne.
They will charge you about $270 for one.
They will supply and fit a ring gear for $75 too if you want.
They delivered within 1 week which was great for me at the time.

Hope this helps!
Will upload a pic of each of these too....( wont work ATM!)

[VSSECO]

Just got a question about "mirror balancing" of flywheels for the ecotec engine as mentioned above in the original post.
Is this only necessary when putting an earier model flywheel onto an ecotec engine (since ecotec and earlier V6 have different balance)? OR, does the ecotec have different balances for auto and manual engines, hence making it necessary to balance an ecotec manual flywheel to suit an auto engine when doing the conversion???

[VSSECO]

On another note... In the ecotec, do the auto flexplate and manual flywheels use the same crank dowels? And should it be safe to re-use the original dowels when changing flywheels?

[Pub247]

Ok ecotec manual flywheels don not need balancing when going on ecotecs. The exception to this is the L67 because they are balanced differently and never came out of the factory manual.
If your flywheel is off an earlier vns2-vr v6 then it will need to be balanced to suit any ecotec or l67 as stated above.
I don't see any problem using original dowels unless they were damaged somehow

[VSSECO]

Perfect, thats what I wanted to hear. I've bought the exedy solid flywheel/clutch package and I'm about to do the auto to manual conversion. I didn't want to have to go and balance the new flywheel I just bought!
I guess that the dowels aren't expensive anyway so maybe I should just get those new too.

[Chirpstr]

I have a ecotech series one flywheel...will I need to get this balanced or machined before putting it on my buick crank?

[deanos70]

Regarding the auto flexplate balancing from the factory, would it be a mass production balanced flexplate for each different model of motor built , like would all auto vx 3.8 ecotecs be balnced the same, or would each motor be balanced individually ?

I was reading the above info about mirror balancing, ive got a 2002
v6 ecotech motor that was an auto but it doesnt have the flexplate with it, i spoke to dellows to see about getting a solid flywheel to suit, they said they need my flexplate to balance the flywheel the same as there are about 6 different balance locations on the flexplate, im just a bit confused as this is the first time ive heard of this and in the post above it mentions that the ecotec doesnt need to be mirror balanced,

I know castle rod shop do a solid flywheel as well to suit the ecos, has anyone who bought one from them had to get it balanced or just a straight bolt up job, and if it was a straight bolt up have you got any vibrations


thanks in advance

[Pub247]

I have a ecotech series one flywheel...will I need to get this balanced or machined before putting it on my buick crank?

Yes you will need to get it balanced and likely machined before putting on your buickVR motor

Regarding the auto flexplate balancing from the factory, would it be a mass production balanced flexplate for each different model of motor built , like would all auto vx 3.8 ecotecs be balnced the same, or would each motor be balanced individually ?

I was reading the above info about mirror balancing, ive got a 2002
v6 ecotech motor that was an auto but it doesnt have the flexplate with it, i spoke to dellows to see about getting a solid flywheel to suit, they said they need my flexplate to balance the flywheel the same as there are about 6 different balance locations on the flexplate, im just a bit confused as this is the first time ive heard of this and in the post above it mentions that the ecotec doesnt need to be mirror balanced,

I know castle rod shop do a solid flywheel as well to suit the ecos, has anyone who bought one from them had to get it balanced or just a straight bolt up job, and if it was a straight bolt up have you got any vibrations


thanks in advance

As far as i know they were a mass produced item. Motors were never fully balanced from factory (as in balancer, crank, rods, pistons, rings and flexplate)
I can see how they were what they say is true. They do some balancing from factory. I didnt think it would be a big issue maybve it could be. We sell motors at work without flywheels/fexplates and people reuse theyre old ones to my knowledge thyere's never been any issues with this.

[Chirpstr]

Yes you will need to get it balanced and likely machined before putting on your buickVR motor.

You sure I'll have to get it balanced? Everyone I've spoke to reckons they are already balanced and just get it machined...mmmm How much does this ballanceing cost? Machined (which I was only going to do) is $40.

Cheers.

[Pub247]

Ecotec and buicks have the same cranks but they are balanced differently. They're already nalanced but to suit ecotec not earlier buicks. To get it mirrored balanced (with your old flexplate) would cost about as much as machining any engine specialist will be albe to do it no worries.

[Chirpstr]

Big Thanks for clearing that up mate. I'll ring around and see if I can get it mirror balanced, not just a machined...

[vks]

so its ok 2 fit a series 2 crank in2 a series 1 motor there wont be any drama's?

[OZ38]

so its ok 2 fit a series 2 crank in2 a series 1 motor there wont be any drama's?

I believe the oil pump drive is different between the two crankshafts ?

Cheers

Deek

[fuzzy2308]

so ecotec auto and ecotec manual same? straight bolt in either 1

[Blown V6 Hatch]

Yes, they are the same. Straight bolt in....

[fuzzy2308]

Yes, they are the same. Straight bolt in....

thanx heaps mate. thanx for giving me a straight answear +1 rep. ive been ****ed around heaps on this subject. very healpfull. thanx again.

[OZ38]

so ecotec auto and ecotec manual same? straight bolt in either 1

Well they are the same dimensions / sizing. But lets not forget the manaul crank has the dowel pins & the holes drilled to suit.

So basically a manual crank will drop straight into a engine thats running a auto transmission.

Where as earlier ecotec engines that had a auto trans don't have the dowel pin holes drilled. So if you want to put a manual box behind one of these auto cranks you will need to have it drilled for the dowels or run the flywheel without the dowels.

Some have had no problems doing this where as other have had bolts come loose or snap. Your choice.

Cheers

Deek

[OZ38]

Manual & Auto crank flanges below.

Cheers

Deek

[VT-565]

Manual & Auto crank flanges below.

Cheers

Deek

My old shorty?? lol

[OZ38]

My old shorty?? lol

No.

Yours, well it's still work in progress Nick.

I will send you some pics when it's closer to assembly.

Cheers

Deek

[ToxicVn]

I wanted to convert my S1 auto to manual and was told that all i needed was a series 2 conversion. thank you for supplying this info, I ended up just buying a series 2 VP and gave me missus the S1. lol seemed less expensive and time consuming. ha ha

[deanos70]

Where as earlier ecotec engines that had a auto trans don't have the dowel pin holes drilled. So if you want to put a manual box behind one of these auto cranks you will need to have it drilled for the dowels or run the flywheel without the dowels.

Some have had no problems doing this where as other have had bolts come loose or snap. Your choice.

Cheers

Deek

im a bit confused as the auto flexplate has no dowel pins it just 8 bolts, im just wondering why the manual needs the 2 dowel pins put in, if the bolts on the manual could come loose, couldn't the auto flexplate bolts do the same ? there would be just as much weight with the torque converter on it as a flywheel with pressure and clutch plate on ?

Does the exedy solid flywheel conversion kit have only 8 bolt holes in it , or does it have the extra 2 holes for dowel pins

the pictures posted by you OZ38 do you know what model engines they are from

[Illuminatis]

Awesome info... thanks... I need a S2 VP-VR motor and fly to suit