Stock 304, Guide to choosing a camshaft

[drewVHSS]

This is true to some degree, I agree with you as the 284 is the largest cam you can go without raising the compression, but he has the added raised compression already which will help in that area. Also it has a slightly larger LSA @ 112 rather than the 286 @ 110. If he was to order the 284 with a LSA of 113 or 114, then that would be a VERY nice cam...!! I would order a split duration cam at 218/228 @ 0.50", 113 LSA. That cam would be the ticket...!! But again, that's custom grind, as thus why I reckon order a custom grind.
The 276 is a nice cam but it runs out of puff at 4500. Its ok if he will drive on lower torque, but if he wants to rev, then it wont do. The 284 is a nice compromise especially with the added compression.

I want to be able to use it on the occasional track day now and then and i've learn't going full noise up a steep hill it just drops off when i want that extra bit, but the hard thing is I love how it's still driveable low down atm so i'll have to gather my thought's together enough to talk to crane and see what they come up with. Biggest problem is i can't know for sure what my actual CR is untill i pull the heads... but i dont wanna do that untill i'm actually doing the conversion, I do have a couple of std efi cams laying around... not keen on using one of those untill i sort out the cam i want.... kinda waste of time redoing the valley gaskets again + lifters + timing case cover gaskets.
I dont mind spending the extra as long as I'm not walking in and asking for a big stick that runs like crap!

[Aussiepride5L]

Yeah mate, for sure about the CR. At the moment you power curve is about from 1800 to 4500rpm...? If so, thats pretty much a 276. The 284 is from 2200 to 6000rpm. Thats not a huge difference. The VT roller came is a 278, 1000 to 5000rpm- probably the most usable grind out, but again for track...it might fall short a little. A 284 with a LSA of 13-14 will probably make the power from 18-2000 to 6000rpm. Pretty nice...!! Mind you, 10:1 CR, ported VN heads, powertorque dualplane highrise manifold, dynojetted rotty-quadrajet or 4brl injection, hardened pushrods, roller rockers, full exhaust, full MSD ignition to boot as well and it'll be a fkn ball tearer....!!! :-D :-D :-D

[ari666]

you power curve is about from 1800 to 4500rpm...?

The 284 is from 2200 to 6000rpm.

Thats not a huge difference.

lol .

[PaRaDoX]

Yeah mate, for sure about the CR. At the moment you power curve is about from 1800 to 4500rpm...? If so, thats pretty much a 276. The 284 is from 2200 to 6000rpm. Thats not a huge difference. The VT roller came is a 278, 1000 to 5000rpm- probably the most usable grind out, but again for track...it might fall short a little. A 284 with a LSA of 13-14 will probably make the power from 18-2000 to 6000rpm. Pretty nice...!! Mind you, 10:1 CR, ported VN heads, powertorque dualplane highrise manifold, dynojetted rotty-quadrajet or 4brl injection, hardened pushrods, roller rockers, full exhaust, full MSD ignition to boot as well and it'll be a fkn ball tearer....!!! :-D :-D :-D

are you on crack? When i had a 276 fitted to my car the powerband started at 3000rpm and ended round 5600rpm. (stock manifold, just tuned,exhaust and CAI)

Are we all speaking the same language? ie. Advertised duration?

The dual plane manifold has shorter runners pushing the power band up yet again.

My best 60' time was 2.2 before the cam and i could not get anything under 2.4 post cam, if the 276 was responsive from 1800rpm like you say that is what the torque convert locks up at and you'd see an lower 60' time.

[immortality]

are you on crack? When i had a 276 fitted to my car the powerband started at 3000rpm and ended round 5600rpm. (stock manifold, just tuned,exhaust and CAI)

Are we all speaking the same language? ie. Advertised duration?

The dual plane manifold has shorter runners pushing the power band up yet again.

My best 60' time was 2.2 before the cam and i could not get anything under 2.4 post cam, if the 276 was responsive from 1800rpm like you say that is what the torque convert locks up at and you'd see an lower 60' time.

You hit the nail on the head with the first line. The stock manifold just won't make power to 6000rpm. A dual plane high rise TP manifold will breathe better then the standard manifold at high rpm and isn't to much of a slouch at low rpm either. Also upping the compression to 10:1 will get you back a fair bit of the low rpm torque.

Running a stock holden 304 with any decent kind of cam is just a huge compromise, especially when sticking with the standard banana's manifold.

[Aussiepride5L]

You hit the nail on the head with the first line. The stock manifold just won't make power to 6000rpm. A dual plane high rise TP manifold will breathe better then the standard manifold at high rpm and isn't to much of a slouch at low rpm either. Also upping the compression to 10:1 will get you back a fair bit of the low rpm torque.

Running a stock holden 304 with any decent kind of cam is just a huge compromise, especially when sticking with the standard banana's manifold.

LOL.... On crack....?? Only when she opens her legs...!!! XD

Yeah, sorry, I meant the difference at the lower RPM of the two cams... ie 1800 and 2200 start of power. With a manual transmission it should still be pretty good.

Im talking the CraneCam model number...eg Crane H276. The only reason why a Crane 276 would start at 3000rpm instead of 1800rpm would be either not enough velocity or the compression ratio being too low. They state to build an engine around the cam. If you dont, the cam will dictate the engine how it wants to, not how its description states. Its kind of odd how it reflected in that manner.

Compucam H276 HYDRAULIC - Good idle with lope, mid-upper
rev range improvements while maintaining
strong bottom end torque, best in twin throttle
body vehicles. Use with all normal modifications
or as GROUP A replacement.
BASIC RPM 1800-4500, Deg @ .050” Cam Lift Int./Exh. =214/214

Compucam H284 HYDRAULIC - Fair idle, strong mid-upper rev
range performance. Ideal in well developed
engines for street or moderate competition use.
BASIC RPM 2200-5500, Deg @ .050” Cam Lift Int./Exh. =222/222

Compucam H286 HYDRAULIC - Fair idle, strong mid range-top
end street and strip performance. Needs 9.5-
10:1 comp. 3.08-3.5 gears, hi-stall converter etc.
for best results.
BASIC RPM 2500-6000, Deg @ .050” Cam Lift Int./Exh. =230/230

[drewVHSS]

I've been doing research from articles written by Isky last night and 2nite, to come up with more of an idea of what to talk to crane about.

Thanks Aussie and Ari for the "food for though" Am looking at custom LSA but also have come round to a few concepts Isky has in his articles such as not needing longer duration on the exhaust side. I'm hoping that I can get a close match to what i'm looking for and if it's a smidgeon on the wilder side than i need, i can always advance the cam a frac to reign it in within limits.
Will post what crane say's in their response to my specs.

[Aussiepride5L]

No drama's Drew.. is why I love CompCams so much out of them all...they do split durations as standard and their grinds are spot on...!! My cam will be @ 0.050" 242 in/ 248 ex 13 LSA. Wade also is like that with grind variations. At least you're onto what you want mate. Cheers.

[PaRaDoX]

My cam was a wade 276 with 0.50 lift, I did have stock CR (8.4:1) and std stallie (1800rpm,auto)

When i purchased my cam i was told by the manufacturer the power band is 2500rpm -> 6000rpm on a stock 304 v8 manual.
I see your point but even with a higher CR it wouldn't make great power at these rpm's.

The stock banana manifold will sturggle to make power over 4800rpm, It has nice & long 19" runners great for low down torque. With the DP manifold it has around 9" long runners which yeilds more torque at higher rpm but does not give the same low rpm air velocity that the banana manifold gives.

The point im trying to make is simply claiming the cam makes power from X rpm is null and void. There are too many determining factors such as final ratio, transmission type, stall convertor lockup rpm, tune etc.
which is why i decided to compare my more or less stock auto v8 ss with a 3.08 final drive, let's face it this is the same as %90 of readers.