Which 5L would best suit?

[GunnVK]

Hi guys,
New to the forum! Looking forward to the helpful info. Now if this has been covered please point me in the right direction or if its been asked a million times feel free to ignore this thread.

Anyway looking at turning my old daily a VK Berlina 6cyl carb into a 5L. Now not sure whether to go a carbie 308 or EFI 304. This is my situation.

Which is easier to convert the 308 or 304? Both the mechanical side and registering side. Im not that experienced with cars but have some knowledge, my old man is a mechanic so he can help me out.

If i choose a 308 will i be wasting my time and money in the long run on trying to get similar power a 304 can produce? Im not looking at having insane power but just a tough streeter. Can i still get good power out of a 308? Seems like VN heads are the way to go.

Im sure ill have a few more questions later on.

Thanks!

[ari666]

its all down to personal preference.

VK came out with carb'd 308's so legally speaking its easy to do the swap. things like V8 springs, diff and trans need to be thought about, then its just a case of starter wire, coil wire, temp wire and oil pressure wire to get it running.

304 is tonnes more wiring, a little more difficult to get it reg'd (everyone seems to have different ideas on that) but you get better fuel economy and more power.

having said all that there would be nothing wrong with a 308/VN heads and a carby. it wont be legal due to a lack of EGR and TVS but it would still LOOK legal

[oztatts]

like ari666 said carbie is an easier conversion.. just need to find a wrecked 308 commodore. then swap out crossmember etc.. we didi it to a mates vk.. and was a pretty straight forward job.. 4 of us drinkin had it done in 2days. 3rd day it was burnin rubber..

[ari666]

yeah if you have the equipment, changing the whole K frame in one unit will really shave time cos itll have engine/trans/springs/shocks/brakes/steering/everything all attached ready to install. its just a case of undo'ing the bolts holding the k frame, undo the strut top bolts, undo fuel, wires, brakes, tailshaft etc. raise the car off the whole lot, wheel it away, wheel in the new frame lower car, do up bolts, attach wires/lines. drive away.

if you have a hoist and the K-frame assembly it couldnt take more than a couple of hours with 2 or 3 ppl.

[Warranty Void]

Have you thought of dropping in a 304 and running it on straight gas? You can dodge all the fuel set up and ditch the computer, a good set up will run close to petrol for power or you can have gas injection installed and make more power than a stock petrol motor. Just a thought.

[Darren_L]

308 carb is the easiest conversion. Drops straight in and if the V8 engine harness comes with the engine, it's simply a matter of unplugging the 6 cylinder harness at the firewall and plugging in the V8 harness

EFI 304 also drops straight in, but of course wiring is more involved. But not difficult. Personally I'd go for the EFI option. Costs more to do the conversion and takes a bit more effort, but the driveability, fuel economy and instant startup on cold mornings makes it all worthwhile. And yeah standard they have considerably more power & torque than the carb 308

[GunnVK]

Thanks for the reply guys. Very helpful. Im liking the thought of a 308 as it sounds relatively easy. I can get hold of a 308 black motor with auto and tailshaft originally from a vk for $500 which seems pretty cheap to me. I thought by the time i get a EFI (my bro picked one up for $1300 with a T700) So as a rough guide theres $800 i can spend on a 308 before they are even in price. Then the money i spend on the reco of the EFI can also go towards the 308 (which will already be recoed from the $800 price difference). Then their is getting the EFI engineered etc when a 308 can go and be registered no problems so the money spent on the engineering can go towards the 308 also. So what im getting at is by the time i do a 5L conversion for the amount that it will cost in total i could have a relatively stock 304 or a slightly worked 308, but will the 304 still outweigh the 308. Hopefully i explained it well enough so you's can understand what im on about. The car wont be a daily so fuel economy wont really bother me or the ease of start on cold mornings. If i was to go a EFI what would be a good doner car? something that i can get motor, transmission, diff, brakes etc from? or am i just dreaming lol.

Appreciate the help!

[RazzaCaine]

if you were do to an efi conversion you could pick up a written vn of reasonably cheap. as far as i know the vn 304s would be the easiest of the 304s to wire up. if you spend a bit of money working a 308 you can get them pumping out some decent numbers. my 308 has a mild cam, roller rockers and a single 2.5" exhaust system, all backed up by a crappy m20 4 speed and heavy duty clutch and made 155rwkw, which is more than a stock 304. thats with a 3.08 single pegger diff as well. all that work on the 308 wouldnt cost much to do at all so with the money difference between a 308 and a 304 you could have a nice mild carby 308 in your car. i love my motor and i dont really have any cold start issues with it and i have the cold start autochoke disconnected.

really it depends on what you want to do to the car. if you want to keep it simple, original and fairly cheap then go 308. if you want the best driveability then go 304. the 308s arent that much worse than a 304 on petrol if you get them tuned properly. since getting my 308 tuned i get around 400kms from a 60L tank which isnt to bad for a carby 5L if you ask me.

hope ive helped you somewhat

[exec24]

well if it isnt a Daily Id Go a EFI 304(might as do it once)

a VN OR VP is what you want as a donor as they dont have electronic transmissions(unlike VR or VS) and can be bought for $1000-1500 for a complete car(from what i've seen lately)

and depending on the Year VK's Came out with both Carby 308's and then got changed to Carby 304's anyway, to comply with racing Regulation at the Time

[ari666]

i know this is gonna sound retarded: but i really like how my carb'd 308 carrys on. i like having to know the trick to starting it (its fun when other people jump in and try and get it going) i like how it rattles and shakes and how one day itll run like a dog, then the next day itll tear your face off, and i like complaining about fuel bills.

i would always recommend the carb'd option

[GunnVK]

Thanks for the help guys! My old mans a mechanic with a drag racing background so he would know how to get decent power out of a 308. Haha yeah that's what my 202 was like I was the only one that could start it and knew what to do when it conked out.
Razza- simple and cheap is what I think I want, just so I can do it myself. But then again I'm not sure if I'll regret not going an EFI. hmmm I think I need more time to think

[justbad4you]

a daily???? efi 304 for the cold parts of the year and better uel eccon

Hi guys,
New to the forum! Looking forward to the helpful info. Now if this has been covered please point me in the right direction or if its been asked a million times feel free to ignore this thread.

Anyway looking at turning my old daily a VK Berlina 6cyl carb into a 5L. Now not sure whether to go a carbie 308 or EFI 304. This is my situation.

Which is easier to convert the 308 or 304? Both the mechanical side and registering side. Im not that experienced with cars but have some knowledge, my old man is a mechanic so he can help me out.

If i choose a 308 will i be wasting my time and money in the long run on trying to get similar power a 304 can produce? Im not looking at having insane power but just a tough streeter. Can i still get good power out of a 308? Seems like VN heads are the way to go.

Im sure ill have a few more questions later on.

Thanks!

[GunnVK]

Yeah the EFIs seem better alround. If I can find a doner car at a good price I'll jump on it. But the ease of a 308 conversion still has me undecided lol.

[ari666]

i think you will regret not going VN heads from the very start. otherwise you are buying extractors/cam/intake twice.

get a 308, stick vn heads on and fit a carby. im spewing i didnt go vn heads from day one. now i cbf buying everything again.

[GunnVK]

Ari, You mention before that vn heads arent legal? Is their anyway to get them legal by getting it engineered etc?

[ari666]

nah cos there is no EGR crossover on them. im told VN on didnt need EGR, so without that your emission system isnt complete. a simple fix (i have been told) is to fit a couple of cats and get it certified. but the thing is, vicroads only want to know if you changed the engine number, which you would have, to VT***, i.e. VK black which is legal. you dont need a rwc cert to change it. just call them up with the new engine number.

but the reg process is also debatable, because its all hearsay, i have never done it.

edit* that didnt really make sense.

if your car is already reg'd, then all you have to do is ring vicroads with the new number, which will be a VK 308, which is legal. the fact that your heads dont have EGR doesnt make a difference to the engine number. itll just suck if you get a canary and have to rwc it somehow.

[Darren_L]

if you want to go with a carbed 5L, might be easier just to grab a set of big valve heads off a VL or Yella Terra.
whilst they aren't as good as VN heads, they still have good potential. Depends what sort of power levels you are seeking in the future I guess.

[GunnVK]

What if i was to get an 304 EFI and carby it? So i get the advantage of the bigger heads? But hoping it will be an easier conversion. Would i need to still run all the wiring looms etc or will it be just as easy as a 308 conversion? As you said darren it depends on the power i want in the future but eventually we all want to go faster so i think if i dont go the VN Heads now ill regret it in the future

[ari666]

the only prob i would have with doing that is that you will have a different engine prefix which may ring alarm bells when you try and change the engine number at vic roads.

VN (onwards) blocks are generally better than 308 blocks too. spiked rods and a few extra webs here and there for strength. if you can land a roller block from a VT then by all means GET IT. lol.

to use a 304 with carby, you will just need to change the dizzy, fuel pump and inlet manifold. (i think thats all) im not sure if there will be issues with the transmission though.

[GunnVK]

Thanks again for clearing that up Ari. I would love to go a 308 cause it's cheaper and easier but I think I'll go the efi if I can find a doner car in the near future. Thanks for all the help guys appreciate it! I'm sure I'll have a few more questions. Will I run into any problems with converting the car to carby after iv done the efi conversion and registered it as an efi? With insurance and Vic roads?

[Gudgeon Pin]

i've got VK and have the EFI 304, they go alright, and you still get good fuel. Plus have the vn ss 85l long range tank. Don;t get me wrong i love carbies but the 304 is a challenge and has benefits. Up to you mate

[GunnVK]

Thanks for that Gudgeon Pin! I think I will regret not going the EFI. and if I want to go carby cause I'm after a more hotrod look (if that makes sense lol) as i like the idea of a filter sticking out of the bonnet then I can always convert it and still have the advantage of a stronger motor.

[mr j-man]

hey gunn! im lookin at puttin the vn 5lt into me VH and running as a carby! to everyone else on this thread
are the v8's in the vn's vp's and vr's all the same motors in regards to specs?....as in 308 or 304? im a lil
confused as to what cubes they are? being the fact that im lookin on ebay for a motor and i type in 308 and it shows
a vn or vr 5tr and then type in 304 and get a vn or vp vr 5tr...what the ####?????

[Blown V6 Hatch]

nah cos there is no EGR crossover on them. im told VN on didnt need EGR, so without that your emission system isnt complete. a simple fix (i have been told) is to fit a couple of cats and get it certified. but the thing is, vicroads only want to know if you changed the engine number, which you would have, to VT***, i.e. VK black which is legal. you dont need a rwc cert to change it. just call them up with the new engine number.

but the reg process is also debatable, because its all hearsay, i have never done it.

edit* that didnt really make sense.

if your car is already reg'd, then all you have to do is ring vicroads with the new number, which will be a VK 308, which is legal. the fact that your heads dont have EGR doesnt make a difference to the engine number. itll just suck if you get a canary and have to rwc it somehow.

Going EFI gets around that problem. No EGR needed on an EFI 5 litre.

Just go injection, you won't regret it IMO.

[GunnVK]

Quick question what engine would better suit the conversion in my VK. A 304 from a VS stato or a VN SS? Which one will have better performance even though they are the same pretty much? And easier to put in?