5.0l efi to carby
hi all
just a couple of concerns with legal issues and roadworthy....
i have an engine from a VR calais v8...im wanting to remove all
fuel injection and run it with a carby set up and drop it into my VH SLE
how would this go with all the regulations in QLD? as im about to get all the parts
needed for the conversion!.....are these engines a 308 or 304 ci" as so many people
are telling me one then others say another??? this is the dudes in the wrecking yards im talking about!
Banned
Anything fuel injected is a 304.
Into the SLE, It SHOULD be legal. The only hiccup I can see is that perhaps the engine number being from a VR they might ask some questions. But the SLE came from the factory with an injected 308, which is identicle aside from the crank. (Well the heads are different but never mind that)
I reckon you should be right though.
Too many projects.....
No go mate. Unless you run the original quadrajet with all the emissions gear hooked up (which won't all be operative with injected heads and manifold anyway), it won't be legal. Holley=not a chance as they are a non pollution type carburettor i.e. will not comply with ADR 27a. Even more of a no no, if you're using an injected engine with a carby on it. The only way around it is to keep the injection and get it registered like that.
As soop said, all EFI 5 litres are 304 cubes.
Soop, what VH SLE came with an injected 308 from the factory?
Banned
No no, I simply meant that they had a 308 from the factory.
If you're sly and just try to register it as a normal 308, you MIGHT get away with it.
I've helped put VN 308's in to woody's before and not had an issue with the RTA. It depends on how strict the inspector is I guess.
Too many projects.....
You might get away with it, but pretty doubtful. As soon as they lift the bonnet and see a Holley, they'll can it (unless you have a pretty dumbshit inspector) and as you said the engine number is going to raise alarm bells anyway. Then if you do get it past rego, the EPA or Police can dick you pretty badly on the road anyway.
Inject and forget IMO
Tells it like it is.
In Victoria you must have the emissions to suit the relevant adr of the date of manufacture vehicle or engine (whichever is later). Therefore in theory you are required to make the car comply with whatever was required with the VR as the engine block casting date is what is deemed to be date of engine manufacture. I'm reasonably sure QLD has similar laws.
Reaper
hmm strange! ive had other blokes (from this forum) tell me it should be all sweet! The car was originally a 253...and i put the now 308 into it...when it came time to register it at main roads they didnt even look at the car all they wanted to see (on paper) was a safety certificate and a VIN#......paid the coin for rego, got the plates and walked out the door....nothing about engine numbers or anything like that! as for on the road issues as u can see my profile pic....performer manifold, 2inch riser, 650 mechDP, and the air cleaner out the top...driven past many a cop and never had a issue!
whats the go with the holleys??????
what about the heads???? dont people get efi heads and pet them on an old school 308 and run em with holleys?
im kinda disapointed at the moment....just bought the bloody thing!
i dont want to got through all the drama of running efi, computers ect
Too many projects.....
Yes, people do it all the time, doesn't make it legal though....Originally Posted by mr j-man
Holleys are not legal on any car that was manufactured after July 1976, that's when ADR 27a (pollution regs) were introduced. Which obviously makes a VR engine illegal with a Holley on it.
By all means, if you want to do it, go right ahead, but you asked if it will be legal. Which it won't be.
so i ve been thinking of the injection setup! what would be required to get all riged up...wiring loom, ecu what else? the engine is complete top to bottom bar a starter mtr!
Too many projects.....
You will need everything that makes it run in a Later Commodore.
Motor, ecu, loom, ignition module, all sensors etc. etc.
The loom is really the only thing that will need to be modified and you will need a later model Commodore fuel tank with the EFI pump/s in it and an extra fuel line.
Really, it's not a big deal at all to set-up and will make it all perfectly legal aslong as you run it as it came from the donor car.
Banned
How much has to be modified from a VR loom?
I've done a transplant from one VR to another before and the loom is fairly basic.
Too many projects.....
VR onwards is a bit more involved actually. You need to have the theft deterrent removed from the MEMCAL, they also have a hall effect pickup for the speed sensor which can be a bit painful to get around. VN-VP is the go for conversions, no 2 ways about it.
Banned
I was going to say that.
VN is about as basic as you ever want to get. I wasn't too sure the difference between the VN and VR though. It doesn't look a great deal difference.
whats the go with the extra fuel line???? is one a supply and the other a return line?...as soop said what mods does the loom need?
Too many projects.....
Yep, that's correct. You can use your original line for feed and put another in for the return line, but i forgot you will actually need 3 lines. The third line will be for the charcoal canister vapour line. If you use a VN tank (or VL EFI) it will have all the outlets required.
Can't tell you exactly whats required on a VR loom as i've only ever modded/bought VN conversion looms.
this is also the case in Qld
refer to the Qld light vehicle code of practice page 5 'Exhaust emissions general'
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/b3...reductions.pdf
it states:
all of the emission control equipment originally fitted to the replacement engine must be fitted and operational. An appropriate catalytic converter must be fitted in the vehicles exhaust system if the engine was originally designed to operate with one.
to the OP
the engine will be identified by the engine number which of course will be a VR engine number. Therefore ALL the VR emissions control equipment must be fitted. As the EFI system is an integral component of the emissions system, it would also need to be fitted.
99% of the time people will get away with it. Generally the people working at the customer service centres wouldn't know a V8 from a V6. But if you get a curious police or Qld Transport officer that pulls up the vehicle and runs the engine number, then you could end up with a defect notice and possibly an infringement notice.
crappy ol' VN driver
If your real keen on the carby look, then getting a Torque Power dual plane manifold and 1000cfm throttle body for the look but maintaining the EFI for legal reasons
if he used a VR trans then the speed pick up shouldn't be a issue?
Body by Holden, Soul by Brock
the Legend will live forever
VN exec T5: 15.1sec @92.2mph 1/4 mile, 9.7sec @ 74.6mph 1/8mile, 2.3sec 60ft, 0-60mph 6.827sec 22/11/07 Gtech competition
Too many projects.....
Not in regards to the ECU reading the signal no. But then you open up a whole other can of worms getting the cable speedo to work, as the VR onwards autos have no mechanical speedo output. Pain in the arse.
I still say that for conversions, VN-VP is the go. Both in regards to the engine electrics & the auto.
if you have a VR harness, you can plug it straight into a VN-VP 808 ECU, which avoids the VATS and BCM problems associated with VR/VS ECU's/PCMs
I've got a VR harness on the VH which I originally had running an 808 (now have a Kalmaker SP3, which is basically a programmable 808). A few of the wire colours are different to the VN-VP harness, but basically it's the same. Like the VN-VP harness, you need to pick up a few battery, ignition wires and earths, plus the speed sensor wires of course.
any issues with having a turbo 350 box behind it????.......when it comes to efi...some of the sh#t is just over my head!
i need to get knowledge asap coz i dont wana take it to the mech and have him rippin me off on labour cost and whatever else
Tells it like it is.
Not legal either but a very good choice
Reaper
Too many projects.....
No dramas at all, you just need a speed sensor just like you would with a Turbo 700. You can use an inline speed sensor which allows the ECU to get a speed signal and screw the speedo cable on so you can still use your original speedo.
just been checking out the ecu's (vn, vp)...yeah darren i know about the VATS but wasnt to sure if they involved with the vn vp ecu obviously by what youve said......so whats the memcal? is that the tunning which plugs into the ecu? can u give me the exact details on what to get in relation to the ecu, memcal, and what ever else is required?????
the VN-VP ECU has no control over the transmission (apart from locking the torque converter on the T700)
so short answer is, no problem at all running a T350 if you use a VN-VP ECU
The VN-VP ECU has a security option if you choose to use it. It's a lot simpler than the VR-VS system though. VR-VS uses serial data to disarm the ECU, whereas the VN-VP if you don't want to use the security feature, you run the security wire to earth.
simplest way to explain the ECU & memcal is to relate it to your desktop computer.
The ECU is the computer
the memcal (or 'chip' as it is commonly referred to) is the CD or disk with the program that you put into the computer. If it's a V6, you fit a V6 memcal, if it's a V8 - a V8 memcal, a 4cyl Camira engine - Camira memcal
The same Delco ECU is used for everything from a JD Camira, VL Walkinshaw, VN GrpA right up to VP. It's only the memcal that differs.
So easiest way is to buy an ECU from a VN/VP 5L, as it will come with the correct memcal. However you can also buy a ECU from the any of the above cars, but you'll need to buy a memcal with a 5L calibration. Alternatively you can get someone like Greenfoam to calibrate a memcal for you.
Grab an engine harness, fuse box from under the bonnet is handy too. Get yourself a speed sensor (and adaptor from the box if you plan on using a T350). Make sure you grab the oxygen sensor too - it's usually mounted to the exhaust manifold or engine pipe. Ummm..... I think that's about it
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