HSV double-row timing chain vs timing gears

[savage1987]

OK just to get back on track, there's no reason I shouldn't get a double-row chain to replace my straight-cut gears, right?? I'll start looking into it. Should I be looking for a standard HSV one or an aftermarket item?

[immortality]

OK just to get back on track, there's no reason I shouldn't get a double-row chain to replace my straight-cut gears, right?? I'll start looking into it. Should I be looking for a standard HSV one or an aftermarket item?

rollermaster or JP double row is all you need. best to get the variable timing one so you can degree the cam properly

[tropical^fish]

The only 5.0lt's to run knock sensors are the VN-VS HSV's and the VT roller blocks.

thats correct...
Also all non HSV injected 5.0's ran single chain timing gear from the production line, although as time goes on they do stretch so they may have been replaced at a shop/dealer with stronger double row kits. HSV's came standard with the double row chains.

[savage1987]

immortality, will I get anything out of a variable chain, having a stock cam? My whole motor is internally stock except the gears (which don't really count as internals anyway)

[immortality]

possibly not on a stock standard engine, although you never know how the factory cam was timed or variation in factory production lines etc

[pandaman]

thats correct...
Also all non HSV injected 5.0's ran single chain timing gear from the production line, although as time goes on they do stretch so they may have been replaced at a shop/dealer with stronger double row kits. HSV's came standard with the double row chains.

What is your source of that information? I have NEVER heard of someone pulling down an efi 5L and finding a single row chain.

[pandaman]

immortality, will I get anything out of a variable chain, having a stock cam? My whole motor is internally stock except the gears (which don't really count as internals anyway)

Nope. Could be fun for experimentation purposes, but that's about it. Rule of thumb is that 4 degrees of advance moves your powerband down 200rpm, 4 degrees of retard moves it 200rpm up. There's also a trick I read about on another forum recently of installing a new cam 1 degree advanced so that when the chain stretches it ends up being pretty much straight up.

[immortality]

Nope. Could be fun for experimentation purposes, but that's about it. Rule of thumb is that 4 degrees of advance moves your powerband down 200rpm, 4 degrees of retard moves it 200rpm up. There's also a trick I read about on another forum recently of installing a new cam 1 degree advanced so that when the chain stretches it ends up being pretty much straight up.

the way i understand it is that retarding cam timing will adversly effect the torque created by the engine.

[pandaman]

the way i understand it is that retarding cam timing will adversly effect the torque created by the engine.

Quite possibly, but what torque the engine does make will be made at a higher engine speed. This is the point of vct, vvti, vtec etc do. They adjust cam timing on the go. Retarding a cam is not necessarily a bad thing and may yield higher peak power.

[Blown V6 Hatch]

All advancing or retarding the cam timing does it move peak torque higher or lower in the rev range. Cam timing will not adversly affect power, it only affects torque.

[pandaman]

All advancing or retarding the cam timing does it move peak torque higher or lower in the rev range. Cam timing will not adversly affect power, it only affects torque.

By definition your argument is flawed. Power is the product of torque and engine speed (in radians per second) It's not just peak torque that is moved by adjusting cam timing, it's the entire torque curve. Moving torque around moves the power band. Cam manufacturers tell you this in their documentation.

[savage1987]

OK so I won't worry about an adjustable timing chain setup, I'll just go with a double row direct swap. Thanks for the info though guys.
Unfortunately, due to university and a couple of other things out of my control, I can only just barely afford to keep my car serviced at the moment, even doing it myself at trade price. This chain could be a while coming.

[pandaman]

OK so I won't worry about an adjustable timing chain setup, I'll just go with a double row direct swap. Thanks for the info though guys.
Unfortunately, due to university and a couple of other things out of my control, I can only just barely afford to keep my car serviced at the moment, even doing it myself at trade price. This chain could be a while coming.

I know the feeling mate. I'm at the end of my degree. Been a long four years of being dirt poor.

[tropical^fish]

What is your source of that information? I have NEVER heard of someone pulling down an efi 5L and finding a single row chain.

good old Microcat and the HSV parts catalogues that i have at my disposal

[pandaman]

good old Microcat and the HSV parts catalogues that i have at my disposal

Hmmm, interesting. A fella over on SC who also has access to the old microfiche reckons that VN onwards all had double row. I'd post the link, but apparently these forums don't like the words ****************. If you want it I'll PM it to ya. I'd like to know for sure because I was pretty certain that my chain was original when I pulled it down and it was a double row.

[savage1987]

pandaman, I've got it even worse than you. My degree is 5 years lol!! Double in computer science and engineering. It had bloody well better pay off later! lol