Where it all began.........
VB the most signifigant Holden / Commodore ever.
YouTube - Project 'V' - VB Commodore Project.
Band
captain halfajob
lol@holden making out like they designed it!!!
Is that Greg Norman doing the voice over?
50LTRv8
Lighten up.
You know they did a lot more then just take a european body and slap an Aussie drive train it.Originally Posted by ari666
The vb commodore was actually based on the front of the opel senator and the arse end of the opel rekord(I think it was the rekord). They nearly spent as much money redeveloping it as what it would have cost to design a car from scratch. They had to do that because they found the original opel designed car would snap in half at the firewall if driven at speed over australian roads for any length of time. So there!
The Commodore VB is the same as Opel Commodore C (thirt model) only with diffent engines.
VK-VL use the same chassie as the Senator A1/A2 that was availeble here in Holland in 78.
Exept Holden used thicker steel around the suspension under the bonnet for as far i know and saw during my holiday in Australia 90% of all Monza/Senators/Commodores/Rekords here in Europe have rust around the suspension domes...
I dont have idea of the engines in a Commodore VB but why did Holden not use the European Opel engines??
They are good and quit strong in that time the 3 liter injection was the fastest engine sold by Opel in 78 180hp and 248nm of torque (on the dyno the never got more than 170hp)
I own 2 Opel Monza,s one from 78 and one from 84 and i bought a brake upgrade kit in Australia the 330x28mm brakes and they fit for 100% on my 78 Monza only rear axel is diffent Monza/Senators had IRS and only the Commodore C had a diffent axel and the steering system is diffent than ours.
Holden had to spend time trying to accommodate engines with shorter Opel bonnet - then the longer Senator was available. To enable the engines the Opel steering was replaced by rack and pinion. Front struts were redesigned. Unique front brake callipers’ as well. Dust sealing issues as well. Attached is a picture of the body changes required.
PS - I have owned 3 VB's and have a good 11/78 ready to restore...as I like VB's. I am in the finishing stages of a VB website where I have uploaded / transcribed 20 years of knowledge and literature. When done (next 2 weeks) will let you know.
Last edited by sle10pack; 14-06-2009 at 03:52 PM. Reason: Add attachments.
Nil Bastardo Carborundum
[QUOTE=Gse;1175353]
I dont have idea of the engines in a Commodore VB but why did Holden not use the European Opel engines??
QUOTE]
It was much cheaper for Holden to adapt the Commodore to accept the engines already being manufactured here. In addition, in the late 70's, V8's were still popular and it was considered essential that the Commodore be available with V8 engines.
Generally, the characteristics of Australian and European engines in the late 70's were quite different. Holden engines were reasonably large capacity, low revving and torquey, which suited Australian driving habits. Euro engines tended to be smaller, higher revving and less suited to Australian conditions.
These Eurpoean characteristics werealso witnessed in the JB Camira. An engine that needed to stirred along for decent performance - add lack of oil changes and owners using tap water - these engines self destructed. The nature of these engines verus local driving style was going to clash. Added they initially were too small - ie the final JE had a 2.0 which if available from the outset would have been much better.
YouTube - Opel Senator / Monza Promo 1979
Here is kind a the same clip of the Senator and Monza when they came for sale here in Holland.(its with Dutch voice)
It a sad thing Holden never took the Monza into production,its a great model.
The project V video is a short edit from the 50 years of holden video, narrated by Greg Norman. I think it should have been Brocky (thats another story). I remember when the "Project V" video was new, (now I am giving away my age) from what I remember, it ran for 15 minutes. It was used at the VB product launch and at motor shows around Australia. Made to convince that the Commodore not only was a new direction for Australian motoring but to convince the Aussie buyers that this car was as tough as any previous Holden. Even if you are not a Holden or Commodore enthusiast, it was worth watching. It showed the process of a car from drawing board to showroom. If anyone can find a copy of the full video, I would love to see it.
Body mods. And an alternate looks that never made it. I wonder why Holden did not go with the 'six window' look initially and waited until VK. VK reasons are clear - to give the cabin a larger inside feel, open headrests, slightly recessed dashboard and even the new touch switches for rear demister etc were designed to give impression of more space. The rear of the Berlina and Calais seats were recessed giving more knee room. Imagine if VB's had it - or SL/e only as way of differentiation. Prior to VK lock production down the 'six-window' was only going to be a Calais only fitment - but marketing had research that VH really struggling against XE - so a very wise decision to fit it across all models.
Last edited by sle10pack; 10-08-2009 at 07:59 PM.
As an extra I went to Europe in 2003 for 6 weeks and despite constant looking I did NOT see one OPEL like our VB / VC / VH / VK. Do Australians hold onto there cars for that long? A mate's wife is Japanese - when her parents came to OZ for first time - could not believe that Datsun 120Y's etc were still on the road.
All I saw was an Opel Omega that is a smaller version of our VT.
Imagine taking a delicious Firethorn red VB SL/e over there with the full modified V8 out of a VE HSV 'something or other'. Imagine their shock of seeing such an 'old' car still on the road, RHD none the less and UNDER FULL NOISE....
Last edited by sle10pack; 10-08-2009 at 07:59 PM.
Haha yeah the Monza/Senator/Commodore B are off the road here,reason is:
1:rust rust rust we have a whole diffent climat than in Australia and steel doenst like it very much
2:Fuel consuption (Fuel is around 1,4euro a liter and thats around 3$ a liter and the straight six are quit thirsty 15l on 100kays is normal and with an automatic its even wors)
3:weight,we have to pay tax over the weight of the car and the fuel its using and a Monza-Senator is quit heavy around 1500kg a Monza on petrol is around 600 euro,s a jear on tax and that is more than 1200$ a year and on LPG the tax is double from petrol
4:People here always want new cars
There are at the moment 167 Monza,s left in Holland that are road legal and 434 A and B Senators.
(The VK model was a A Senator and the Senator B was your Commodore model after the VL)
Even the model Omega A and Senator B build from 87 til 94 are hard to find,nobody wants them because of the same reasons.
Why did Holden never use the IRS from a Monza-Senator A thats a great system wicht never breaks downs and give a way better driving comfort??
In all my 10 years of driving these things i never had problems with the IRS.
The IRS system in a Monza is more solid than the ones in the later models.
Lighten up.
They never used the irs for the same reason they didn't use euro engines. Too expensive, and no matter how reliable the irs system was, I just don't think a beam axle can be beat in terms of reliability. Its just so simple.
Ow yeah before i forgot:
The Commodore VB is exact the same as the Opel Commodore C.
And not designt by Holden,Holden just changed a few things.
The Opel Commodore C was a straight six 2.5L it was a mix between the front of the Senator-Monza and the rear of the Opel Rekord,its interior is exact the same as the VB exept some small changes to the meters.
And yeah nohing is stronger that a beam axel.
If you want to spot diffences between the European and Australian cars look here:
TWOMAS Torque • View topic - Royale Down Under
Its sad that the you cant see the last pictures.
And they made a few 2 door Opel/Holden Commodore chassies here:
Pkw-Inserat: Detailansicht
captain halfajob
try and get a VB commodore through MOT in england.
fail
captain halfajob
OMG LMFAO:
YouTube - Daewoo Royale Prince 1500 commercial
panels falling off it from factory! look at the pin stripes
Nil Bastardo Carborundum
A few years ago, Australia had amongs the oldest vehicle fleets in the world, with the average age of cars being 10.3 years old. To answer your question in a nutshell, Yes, we do keep our cars a long time. In Japan, the registration costs increase enormously once a car reaches a certain (very young by our standards) age - I think it's about four years, and it is cheaper to get rid of the old car and buy a new one. This is intended to ensure that new car sales are maintained and that old dungers are off the road quickly. Those "dungers" become our "grey imports", which is why it is so easy to get your hands on cheap, late model Jap cars not seen in Australia like Soarers and even Skylines etc.
Our climate is kinder to car bodywork and they don't rust out like they do in Europe or North America. Local cars are generally built to be pretty durable because of the road conditions and our registration laws don't inhibit ownership of old cars, new car prices have often increased to the point where buyer resistance is higher and it makes more sense to hold on the the old girl just a bit longer.
I have to admit that the 120Y is a very good example of justification for the Japanese legislation though. Those mongrels should never have been released on our streets and the sooner the last one goes to the knackers, the better.
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