VK Berlina won't start.

[Mattimus]

Hey guys, I recently acquired a carby VK Berlina from my next door neighbour who just wanted to get rid of it ( he has a lot of cars )

I've definitely seen cars in better condition :P Unfortunately the paint is stuffed from sun damage, but ohwell. I'm currently trying to get it running, as it hasn't been started in about 3 years. He told me the last thing he did with the car was a full service, then parked it and hasn't touched it since.

I got a battery into it, connected it up, all the lights etc. turn on, including the interior lights, windscreen wipers etc. However when I turn the key, absolutely nothing happens, except for the EST light coming on. If the car was running fine when it was last touched, why would it be the way is is now? Could this be a simple fix?

Cheers, Matt.

[krijnen]

Hey there,

About your starting problem, does the startersolenoid click,s? ,or does it have some kind of a start protection, with a manual trans look for a clutchpedalswitch ,when it fails the engine won,t start either.

A guestion..the EST light..what does it mean?

[Mattimus]

Hiya, no there's no clicking from the starter solenoid, nothing happens at all when I turn the key, well except for the EST light, which I think means something to do with the Electronic Spark Timing.. Not sure if it's a bad thing or a good thing though =/
Oh and my car's an automatic. The car is in park, with my foot on the brake when I turn the key, still nothing.

Cheers, Matt.

[oldboi]

Hey m8 this mite seem like a stupid question, but does it have an imobilizer ? An is it fuel injection ?
Either you not gettin power to starter or mite be imobilizer. Check for power to starter an work back from there.

[BENJAMUM]

can you turn the motor over with your hands as u said its been sitting there for 3 yrs

[ari666]

check your trans neutral switch. you can unplug it from next to the selector (under the console) and bridge the two purple wires.

next option is to run a wire from the starter motor direct to the battery. if you turn the ignition on and it starts then there is an ignition problem, if not its a starter motor issue.

p.s the est light comes on when the ignition is on and turns off once the car is running. there should also be a battery warning light and park brake indicator in there so you prolly have a couple of blown globes or an earth issue.

[Mattimus]

Thanks for all the replies so far guys. Yeah the battery warning light comes on too, but no parking brake light..

No immobilizer that I know of so far, would be funny if there was one hidden somewhere.. I'd have no idea.

Oh and it's carby, not fuel injected.
Cheers, Matt.

[vk berlina]

Ive got a vk berlina efi if anyone wants to buy..

[crazy.vr]

I would have got him to start it before buying it. Sounds to me if it's not cranking, then there is no power through the ignition switch or there is a open circuit between the ignition switch and the starter motor solenoid.

[Jimmyblonde]

It's probably an ignition relay, take a relay that works, wipers or lights and plug it into the ignition relay position. If this isn't it check the coil.

[crazy.vr]

It's probably an ignition relay, take a relay that works, wipers or lights and plug it into the ignition relay position. If this isn't it check the coil.

They never had an ignition relay from stock.

[Jimmyblonde]

They never had an ignition relay from stock.

So it has to be a fuse then right?

Either that or a bad connection in the barrel.

[ari666]

... or the wire has fallen off the starter, which they do... often... stick your head under and look i says.

[Mattimus]

I would have got him to start it before buying it. Sounds to me if it's not cranking, then there is no power through the ignition switch or there is a open circuit between the ignition switch and the starter motor solenoid.

Fortunately it was a freebie, the guy just wanted to get the car off of his land. So if worst comes to worst, I'll sell it for scrap or something.

... or the wire has fallen off the starter, which they do... often... stick your head under and look i says.

I had a looksy on the starter, all the wires are attached. If I bridge the two terminals on the starter, it spins, but doesn't sound like it's engaging the engine at all.

Also, what CCA rating should the battery I'm using be? The one I've got came off an old van apparantly, and is only rated at 320CCA.

Cheers, Matt.

[ari666]

even if the cc isnt enough itlll still crank the engine sorta. itll just go real slow.

if you bridge the wires and it spins then its a problem with your ignition., have you tried turning the ignition to the 'on' position then bridging the starter? it should start if you do that. if not then you will need to check that the coil has +

so try this;

1. run a wire from the battery to coil +
2. triple check the car is in park or neutral (for safety reasons)
3. slide under your new baby and bridge the fat starte wire to the thin one.

by doing it this way you are completely bypassing the need for a key. the car should start and run till' you take off the coil + wire.

if it doesnt then i will need to know more about what it didnt do, i.e. it cranked but no fire, starter just spun but solenoid didnt engage onto flywheel etc etc etc.

good luck

[Mattimus]

even if the cc isnt enough itlll still crank the engine sorta. itll just go real slow.

if you bridge the wires and it spins then its a problem with your ignition., have you tried turning the ignition to the 'on' position then bridging the starter? it should start if you do that. if not then you will need to check that the coil has +

so try this;

1. run a wire from the battery to coil +
2. triple check the car is in park or neutral (for safety reasons)
3. slide under your new baby and bridge the fat starte wire to the thin one.

by doing it this way you are completely bypassing the need for a key. the car should start and run till' you take off the coil + wire.

if it doesnt then i will need to know more about what it didnt do, i.e. it cranked but no fire, starter just spun but solenoid didnt engage onto flywheel etc etc etc.

good luck

When I bridge the starter I hear something spinning, pretty quickly. though it doesn't engage the engine, it doesn't crank. Does this indicate a problem with the starter motor itself?

[ari666]

yeah maybe, there are two stages to your starter action

1. solenoid engage, which is when the gear is pushed forward by the solenoid
2. starter engage, which is when it spins around.

when you power up a starter it should THUMP and spin. so the little gear gets pushed forward about 10mm and it spins like crazy. if you hold the starter in your hand when you do it it should almost jump out of your hand. they have a aunt load of torque.

so maybe the solenoid is kaput. now i am going on a limb here, cos' my starter is only one wire hookup, but i know some types are two, but i would suggest undo-ing the two 14mm bolts on the starter and playing with it direct to the battery to see what is going on.

i have seen a two wire starter in the past that needed one wire for spinning and one for solenoid. i dunno, maybe yours is one of those?

edit* i got distracted by hot chips, anyway if you get the starter off and it seems to work fine on your workbench, then maybe it needs to be shimmed to engage on the ring gear.

[Mattimus]

Bare with me now because I'm probably about to confuse the hell out of you.. I know I'm confused :P

Let's see. There's the main power from the battery going down to a terminal on the starter motor. On that same terminal, there's another red wire, going up into a relay. From that relay there's a black wire going back down to the starter motor, on it's own little terminal. On the same relay there's a black and a purple wire, going into the car, which I assume is the neutral switch thing. We found that by putting power straight from the battery to the black wire (it was unplugged from the relay) the whole engine turned over. The key was turned completely off at this stage.

So there must be a problem with the ignition? Because with all the wires plugged in, turning the key does nothing.

Hopefully my crappy description hasn't confused you too much :P

Cheers, Matt

[crazy.vr]

You 'may' have a faulty ignition switch. It's located on the steering column on the right side, you will see a large plug. Take the column plastic off and unplug the large plug. Place a paper clip (hot wire) between wire colours yellow and red. Do the dash lights come on? Next place the paper clip between wires red and violet. Does the starter motor engage? If both work then the ignition switch would probably be ok.

Now on the relay, there should be 4 wires on it. One of them connected to terminal 85 or 86 will be your ground wire. 87 will go to your starter motor solenoid and 30 will come from the ignition switch but via your neutral safety switch first.

[ari666]

ok, to cut a long story short, you have just ruled out the starter as the problem, so that is one battle won.

onto the next battle. i would follow crazy.vr's suggestion next to rule out your ignition switch. they do tend to die after a while. what is it an 1984? so its 25 years old... not bad really when you think about it.

if you wanted to be LEET you could hook up a stater switch or button like the honda s2000. its not that hard really and means that your ignition 'start' postion doesnt need to work anymore, you just switch the key to the 'on' position and push the button. VRROOOM.



that is if your ignition is dead... oh... just had a thought, if your trans neutral switch is dead then playing with the ignition switch is not going to do anything anyway, so ignore what i have written above (it took a lot of effort and i CBF deleting it) and take the plug off your auto trans selector, bridge the two purple wires and retry the key.

if the selector is stuck in open circuit the key is useless. itll need to be closed to work. so just use your paperclip (as mentioned previously) to join the two up.

then get back us

[ari666]

also, dont be too quick to blame the ignition, cos' you said earlier that the lights came on, which means it is switching to the 'on' postion at least.

[Mattimus]

Yep, the on position does work. When you push it all the way to the starting position, the EST light comes on.

Last night I unplugged the ignition like Crazy VR said and tried bridging the connections. Between Yellow and Red, it's like having the ignition set to 'On' and between Red and Violet, it's exactly the same. Is this more evidence to prove maybe the trans neutral switch is dead?

When I turn the key, I get the EST light come on, only if the trans is in neutral or park. Wouldn't this be the trans neutral switch telling the car it's safe to start?

I will still go out and check the switch though to be sure.

Thanks fellas, Matt.

[ari666]

yeah or maybe that relay you found is a dud. mess with the switch first then if that doesnt work, try what crazy vr said about the relay.

check with yout test light one wire should have constant +, one ground, one to starter and one to igniton. if they are all correct and is still no-workies, then try changing the realy. if you dont have a test light BUY ONE!!! they are about 5 dollars and invaluable.

[Mattimus]

The continuing of the saga, the not starting VK.

I still have no idea about that relay, I'm gonna wait till someone with a bit of know how comes to sus it out a bit.

Something else I was wondering though, is how do I go about draining the petrol tank? As the car hasn't been run for something inbetween 2 and 4 years, I'm guessing the petrol is useless now. One of my mate's lent me his battery and we managed to make the car start (bridging one of the wires from that relay to the positive on the battery) but shortly after starting, it stopped and wouldn't go again.

Is there a plug I can remove from the tank and let it drain? or is it going to be more complicated than that?

[ari666]

yoiu can take off the bottom fuel hose which would be the easiest way IMO. cos' you can do it with the tank on.

i am not aware of any removable plugs in them. so i guess the hard way and most effective would be to drop the tank, take out the sender and tip it on its side for a day or so.

i dunno tho. i dont like messin' with fuel tanks.