VK Wagon Handling Issue

[duxguts]

I've been trying to rectify the steering issue with my 5L VK wagon. It seems to dart around on the road and is very sensitive with the steering. When turning a corner it takes little effort on the steering wheel and badly oversteers trying to turn more into the direction of the turn. If I pass a car it is quite dangerous and wallows around on the road requiring a lot of steering control to not oversteer back into the car that I'm passing.

I've changed the power steering rack, front shocks and tower mounts, (ball joints are OK) and all the rear bushings (flogged out including the panhard rod). I've had it wheel aligned twice by two different people and run a set of 7" x 14" globe rims with new 235 Bridgstone Eagers. The rear shocks are monroe air shocks.

The car still handles the same before I did all the work except that it had 225's on the globe rims.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you,

Tom

[vkberlina]

without knowing more about the cars suspension, springs, shocks, swaybars, wheel offset, tire profile I would say you have totally the wrong tires on the car. You probably feel the car step coming into the corner where you turn then you feel the car take a little side step. What happens is the wall of the tire flexes. try searching "tire wall flex" in google.

If you want to make it handle better 16" weels are probaby your best choice with 225/50/16 rubber.


cheers
Scott

[ari666]

maybe take off the three bolts at the top of your strut and turn the camber top to dial down some of your camber?

too much camber will make the car 'tram track' like crazy, but it really helps cornering, and a lot of wheel alignment centers will not set it to zero cos' some drivers (like myself) like a bit of positive camber.

park the car somewhere even and flat (shopping center car park) make sure the wheels are dead straight then crouch at the front of the car, and check if your tyres are leaning in towards the car at the top. if they are on a crazy angle, you prolly have your camber tops at full. so turning the top clockwise or anti clockwise, either would help. i think clockwise turns it up and anti turns it down. but you can see if its more or less by looking at the strut tower and the shock absorber top wll either be center/closer to engine/closer to the guard.

[duxguts]

OK,

Thanks Fellas. I'm really hoping it isn't the tyres as I spent $1000 for the Eagers for the "80's look" and the colour scheme is in the '84 VK Bathurst colour scheme to promote our business. The rims have been painted white to suit the colour scheme.

I've had a look at the camber and the tyres are straight up and down with no angle in either direction. I'll try some more air in the tyres and swap some rims over to see how it behaves.

Here's a photo of the car. The HGT stands for Historic Grand Tourer.

Thanks for your input,

Tom

[ari666]

directional tyres on the wrong way? that can sometimes throw ya.

[180sc]

the 235's wont be helping but do you have adjustable strut tops/bearing plates? your castor maybe out a bit due to either straightend out castor/z bars bad bushes or adjustable tops not set correctly.

by the way the wags looks cool

[duxguts]

Yes, I've got Nolathane adjustable shock tower mounts.

I've just put some standard commodore rims with 185's on the front and it handles a whole lot better.

So it is now obvious that the extra offset of the globe rims along with the 235's upset the steering. When I put the 185's on I can see the wheels leaning in slightly. With the 235's on the wheels are straight up and down.

Surely there is an adjustment relevent to the rim offset that could be done to make it handle reasonably well? After all they did race with very wide tyres on these cars.

I might have a go at adjusting the top slider and see if it makes any difference.

Thanks

[vkberlina]

its not so much the off set of the rim in your case, it is the tire profile and width of of the tire. When you turn the wall of the tire is flexing and distorting causing the car to step under cornering load, thats why people buy larger wheels.
I run 16" rims on my car with 225/50/16 rubber and I see minimal wall flex.

People forget wheels and tires are part of your suspension package, seeing idiots fitting massive rims to their cars, droping it on its belly and thinking it looks sik when all it will do is damage the car.
There is a compomise between still haing a tire that wont flex much but still cushion your contact with the road.

Why not hunt around for some star type looking rim copies of momos or which were on cars of the era in 16" paint them white you could even white letter the new tires if they dont come like it. Even speedy wheel might to 16" new ones quite cheap.
For the time being it will make it ride hard but start increasng your tire pressures by a couple of PSI a time up to about 40 PSI in them and see how it handles. You may wear the centre ot quicker and need to rotate front to back more often but should make it safer.

cheers
Scott

[duxguts]

OK, I've tried a couple of calias rims (from a VT I think) They don't stick out as far as the globe rims. The tyres were 225/55/16's and it still handled like a pig.

I've increased the 14's to 40PSI and it still handles the same.

I've narrowed it down to not being the offset of the rims as much as the width of the rubber and sidewall movement.

I've never had a car that is this finicky on tyres.

Looks like I need to try some lower profile tyres then.

Thanks,

Tom

[vkberlina]

the 225/55/16 isnt too high profile, the tires werent directional were they? (fronts could be backwards) if it still handled the same I would look else where.

When you had your wheel alignment done are the fronts toe out or in if it is tram tracking a little toe in can help.

Alo have you tried altering the pressure in the airshocks?

cheers
Scott

[180sc]

I still say its castor.

What exactly is done to the suspension?

[stroked]

Could possibly be something to do with your power steering pump. Maybe too much pressure making the steering very, very light. Just a possibility.

[ari666]

When I put the 185's on I can see the wheels leaning in slightly. With the 235's on the wheels are straight up and down.

which would suggest that your camber is too far positive and not noticable with fatter tyres. if you have adjustable tops there is no harm in toning down the camber and taking it for a drive, is there? set it at zero and see if it improves. then work your way back from there.

[ari666]

I've never had a car that is this finicky on tyres.

every car is finiky on tyres. you should see some jap cars that come in with 19" rims and 255's on the front! they handle like shite.

[Darren_L]

any abnormal tyre wear on the front tyres ? eg feathered inner or outer edge/ tread blocks lifting on edges
Apart from toe, caster has the next greatest effect on steering. I realise you've had two different wheel alignments, did they give you a print out of the settings after the wheel alignment ? If so can you give us the settings ?

[STEALTHY™]

Can't help with your problem, but love the wagon. That with the proper group C kit would be awesome!

[Smitty]

OK,

Thanks Fellas. I'm really hoping it isn't the tyres as I spent $1000 for the Eagers for the "80's look" and the colour scheme is in the '84 VK Bathurst colour scheme to promote our business. The rims have been painted white to suit the colour scheme.

I've had a look at the camber and the tyres are straight up and down with no angle in either direction. I'll try some more air in the tyres and swap some rims over to see how it behaves.

Here's a photo of the car. The HGT stands for Historic Grand Tourer.

Thanks for your input,

Tom

its pretty obvious...any wagon thats been raised like that will handle like shite...
(and thats not helped by rear air shocks which only work properly with a large weight on them)

what I want to know is..how did the wheel aligners get the car to factory alignment specs when the ride height is maybe 60-80mm too high???

nice paint job but you are right with yr diagnosis...it will handle like crap

[Smitty]

....oops linky not working