upgrade 308 ignition system

[v8commy]

i was looking at those procomp systems then thinking no those teeth are going to snap off in my motor then led me to think what are the msd sytems worth and what comes with them then looked at this thread and thought wtf My brand new vn turbo v8

i mean did anyone see all those coils?

[v8commy]

i also just checked out msd on ebay and the gen dizzys there was a big capped one and a small capped one anyone know why maybe? 308 had a big one and 253 had a small one? thanks

[ari666]

they made the size of the cap bigger because they ran with higher resistance leads and to reduce the risk of crossfiring in the cap they had to make it bigger. the best thing to so is get low resistance leads and go smaller cap, which fits straight on your dizzy. the mallory box replaces the HEI unit. i have read that the capacitors in the procomp ones either dont exist or are crap, and the capacitors are the most important bit.

multiple coils are great but totally unnecessary in a NA 308 unless your comp is off its face

[v8commy]

they made the size of the cap bigger because they ran with higher resistance leads and to reduce the risk of crossfiring in the cap they had to make it bigger. the best thing to so is get low resistance leads and go smaller cap, which fits straight on your dizzy. the mallory box replaces the HEI unit. i have read that the capacitors in the procomp ones either dont exist or are crap, and the capacitors are the most important bit.

multiple coils are great but totally unnecessary in a NA 308 unless your comp is off its face

thanks but i need a bit more info like the mallory box and the hei unit also will it crossfire with a smaller cap?and what are the low resistance leads worth? also is it hard to wire it up like should i get a sparky to do it?

[ari666]

i explained the wiring on another thread earlier today. have a hunt for it cos i am on a apple laptop and dunno how to open a new window. you wont need low res leads cos' most these days are low anyway. dunno why they would go high resistance. and its a piece of piss to wire up. prolly an hour job

what info do you need? how it works?

[ari666]

msd stands for multiple spark discharge, and basically ups the charge going to your coil, which in turn boosts the voltage coming out of your coil. the promlem with most ignition systems is that they will have a good spark duration at low RPM, but lose it at high, halving or sometimes a third. then you need to mess with your spark plug gaps and heat ranges to get it to work well across the whole RPM range.

msd takes all the headaches out. it means you can run a colder plug and a bigger gap no matter what. on the HEI dizzys it is a two wire hookup a green and a purple the ignition module in the dizzy gets thrown away and the msd box takes its place (points ignition is one white wire) the box needs to be powered constant + and - and needs ignition + there will be a tacho wire off the msd, no longer off your coil as the box controls the rpms now.

thats it from memory 8 wires or so, prolly an hour to install and look pretty.

*copy and pasted*

[v8commy]

ok well dont really understand but ill ask someone that can explain it to me and show me which bits go where etc etc thanks for the help tho mate

[ari666]

lol, how simple is that?

green is the + wire
purple is the - negative where the hei ignition module used to be (under the side cover of the dizzy is a black chip-looking thing with 4 pins. you gotta rip that out and throw it away)

then pos + and neg - constant to power the box, so run it to your battery terminals

then ignition on + so where the coil used to get power from.

two wires to the coil, black - and orange +

a yellow wire to the wire that used to be on the neg - terminal of the coil (tacho)

and thats it. simple job.

[v8commy]

aww k yeh is simple thanks mate

[v8commy]

is this as good as the msd 6al it says so but what it says and what it is i dont know someone give me the heads up?
HOLLEY IGNITION SYSTEM WITH REV LIMITER EQUIV MSD 6AL - eBay V8, Performance Parts, Car Parts, Accessories, Cars, Bikes, Boats. (end time 20-Dec-09 23:50:18 AEDST)

[v8commy]

bump anyone?

[ari666]

well, its genuine holley, which is usually pretty good. but i have no idea.

[v8commy]

ok thanks mate

[v8commy]

any good Holden V8 253-304-308-355 Electronic Ignition System - eBay Ignition Systems, Ignition, Charging, Car Parts, Accessories, Cars, Bikes, Boats. (end time 04-Jan-10 00:09:23 AEDST)

[v8commy]

any good Holden V8 253-304-308-355 Electronic Ignition System - eBay Ignition Systems, Ignition, Charging, Car Parts, Accessories, Cars, Bikes, Boats. (end time 04-Jan-10 00:09:23 AEDST)

bump anyone know?

[ari666]

i personally would never buy a dizzy with an intergrated coil, but that is just me. it doesnt simplyfy anything and looks crap. other than that i have no basis for my opinion. lol.

edit* whats wrong with your stock dizzy? i am running a stock bosch and its fine. granted, its somewhat modified but its still the original factory item. just get a smaller cap for it and maybe fork out for a new hei igniter but thats all you need to do until you go get a silly camshaft.

[v8commy]

i personally would never buy a dizzy with an intergrated coil, but that is just me. it doesnt simplyfy anything and looks crap. other than that i have no basis for my opinion. lol.

edit* whats wrong with your stock dizzy? i am running a stock bosch and its fine. granted, its somewhat modified but its still the original factory item. just get a smaller cap for it and maybe fork out for a new hei igniter but thats all you need to do until you go get a silly camshaft.

wat you pay for your msd 6al?

[DVOLVO]

Incase you want to read up on PROCOMP crap...
PRO COMP

[ari666]

wat you pay for your msd 6al?

i didnt get MSD, although i refer to it as an MSD cos' msd means "multiple spark discharge" which is what mallory 6al is, and in my opionion, mallory is better than msd, but i think it was around the 300 mark.

OMG that ebay listing is f'ing LOL

anyway, 6al here for $340 http://www.vpw.com.au/productgroup.a...&PrdGrpID=3863

[v8commy]

Incase you want to read up on PROCOMP crap...
PRO COMP

ok well i only read the first paragraph and closed the page

[v8commy]

i didnt get MSD, although i refer to it as an MSD cos' msd means "multiple spark discharge" which is what mallory 6al is, and in my opionion, mallory is better than msd, but i think it was around the 300 mark.

OMG that ebay listing is f'ing LOL

anyway, 6al here for $340 VPW Performance Mailorder

ok yeh my dad said that back in the day mallory was the best and being produced earlier it would seem that mallory was better so i will now be on a hunt for a cheap mallory

[ari666]

the only real difference i have seen so far msd to mallory (i installed msd on my mates ford and mallory on mine) is the rev limiter, mallory uses a series of switches and msd is done by cutting a wire loop. i dont like the idea of cutting anything, cos' what happens if you want to set the limiter lower or higher later on?

anyway, what do you mean by "looking for a cheap mallory" 340 IS cheap. if you mean 2nd hand then you may as well just get anything. the difference between them is much of a muchness and 2nd hand is almost as risky as procomp.

[Reaper]

I think ari is right on the money. That said I had a msd on my old Director which did the job fine. Both have come a long way in the last 15 years though and I'd probably go with the Mallory if I were doing the job today.

The words "Procomp" and "upgrade" should never be never used in the same sentence without a negative determiner between them.

Reaper

[immortality]

the only real difference i have seen so far msd to mallory (i installed msd on my mates ford and mallory on mine) is the rev limiter, mallory uses a series of switches and msd is done by cutting a wire loop. i dont like the idea of cutting anything, cos' what happens if you want to set the limiter lower or higher later on?
.

i think you got that slight wrong, you need to cut a wire to select the number of cylinders. then you use those plug in things to set the rev limiter on the MSD. i have the MSD 6al for my VH. MSD now have a newer range, 6al -2 which have a greater output.
i do agree though that cutting wires sucks. you can get a adjustable rpm limiter that you plug in instead of the little pill things

[v8commy]

the only real difference i have seen so far msd to mallory (i installed msd on my mates ford and mallory on mine) is the rev limiter, mallory uses a series of switches and msd is done by cutting a wire loop. i dont like the idea of cutting anything, cos' what happens if you want to set the limiter lower or higher later on?

anyway, what do you mean by "looking for a cheap mallory" 340 IS cheap. if you mean 2nd hand then you may as well just get anything. the difference between them is much of a muchness and 2nd hand is almost as risky as procomp.

yeh fair enough well i better get saving then im gonna get the ignition get the small cap new rotor button low res leads holley blue fp and reg and i have a holley 650 chuck all that on and get it tuned up and see how i go