Isolating 202 Engine Problem

[mainpath]

Good morning everyone,

I know this might be a bit off topic but I have no where else to turn.

I have a HX Kingswood 50th Anniversary with 202 red motor.
Car is fine except today, Heat goes up to max less then 5mins in to a trip, When i turned the car on this morning it had almost zero get up and go.

I noticed the following.

- heat goes up if i accelerate almost always. (light acceleration will not change heat) Heat does go down but will come straight up again.
- I noticed that when this happens the car feels very different, imagine if the car is not getting enough air but only while I accelerate, the car still has power but noticeably less. (car sort of shakes for a bit, it's hard to describe)
- Maybe related, maybe not, I've noticed in D the car sometimes might not click in to gear, if I turn a corner and push gas straight away it wont click in to gear, but if i leave it for a second or two i'll work just fine, might just be the age.

Recent Changes:
- I replace air filter with the same type but new and painted the covers.
- Oil filter changed and new Oil (old & worn out engines type)
- Sprayed carb cleaner in to carb (car ran fine after that)

Basically car has all fluids and I can see anything wrong with it and is only a recent occurrence since Oil and Filter Change.

any help would be very appreciated.

[neet_wagon]

Maybe something has become dislodged (muck/grim/dirty-crap) when you changed the oil and is blocking an oil gallery somewhere? Seems to happen to older cars, you play russian-roulete when changing the oil.

Or it could be completely un-related to the oil-change and its got no water/coolant in it, or the thermostat is stuck closed, or theres a water leak, the water pump could be stuffed and not pumping anymore.

I've seen pics of a water pump of a VT and the fins had corroded off it.

And the gear thing is beacuse its a trimatic! Maybe give it a service. Or grab yourself an Aussie 4spd, those things are like buy two get one free!

Good luck

[mainpath]

What do you recommend I do ?
Luckily I have a spare water pump, is it possibly that if their is a blockage that it could possibly unblock itself?
The oil being so thick could have possibly caused a block ?

[ari666]

yeah, i can only say that i think your trans is a bit low on fluid. when you corner the fluid goes to one side of the pan and for a split second the trans doesnt have enough fluid to push the nxt gear.

as far as your heat problem goes, as neet wagon has already said, your basic checks first, thermostat, fan belts if its a clutch fan, make sure it spins. take the radiator cap off while it is running and watch the water for a few minutes. see that its flowing through the rad and no bubbles.

oh and check your fan shroud! make sure its bolted up nice and tight cos if there is a gap itll suck air in from next to the shroud cos' there is less resistance than sucking it through the rad.

other than that you may just be faced with a dead pump or blocked radiator.

[codfishface]

Try the simple/cheap things 1st.

* Back flush the cooling system with heater circuit open
* Check hoses and replenish with new coolant & water
* Replace radiator cap with one with correct rating
* Confirm engine is getting hot and sensor/gauge isn't on the fritz
* Test/replace thermostat
* Check for worn/slipping belts
* With engine at temp, feel the bottom rad hose (watch out for the fan). If it's coldish, then check thermostat, water-pump and radiator

Is there oil in water, water in oil?

Nearly impossible to diagnose over the webz, but a blocked oil gallery would possibly have more devistating symptoms than just a temp increase.

Good luck with it.

[mainpath]

Okay thank you very much for helping me out I appreciate it, i'll write back on the weekend once i've had some time to test and replace the above.

[Tsunamix]

If your temperature is changing, and there is no apparent water in the oil, or water leaks, check for alot of water in the exhaust after a moderate drive - engine fully up to temp for at leats 5 minutes.

I suspect what your seeing is a correded head, where a waterway has correded right through into the inlet or exhaust runner in the head.

If you are losing water, yet no water in the oil, and temperature is going crazy, this is likely to be the cause. It would explain poor performance as there is water quenching combustion in the combustion chamber (if corrosion is on inlet side).

What I can't for thelife of me remeber is if the 202 had a water cooled inlet manifold. My had a cain uncooled manifold on it so if yours is stock, it may be water cooled.

If it is a water cooled manifold, the water leak could be in the manifold gaskets, or in the manifold itself, or even in the heater plumbing as some cars run the heater connections off the inlet manifold.

the one thing that fits all the symptoms togetehr is water in the inlet tract.

[leigh 7005]

yea they arnt water cooled. im thinking a blocked thermo stat heats up to quick also is your timing corect chuck some cowgone in the radiator about 4 table spoons and drive it for awhile the enpty the radiator cowgone is a fab softner its in powder form

[leigh 7005]

has no get up and go mmmmm head gasket blocked exahust i doubt the exhaust

[mainpath]

Hey all okay a bit of an update,
Tsunamix might be right to some degree when i start the car in the morning i get about 50ml of water come out of the exhaust (this could just be some precipitation), if i use the car then say park it and rev it, no water comes out.
Could the spark plugs possibly be causing some of the issues? They seem very old.
How could i unblock a blocked head gasket?

I checked, No Bubbles in radiator, cables are all good no leaks, not using any oil. everything seems to be fine, coolant is nice and green and enough.
It seems to not be heating up so much during today but i heard a pop when i tried to start the car at the shops this afternoon, turned the car straight off.
It worked fine after that. strange, maybe ghosts lol.

thanks

[mainpath]

yea they arnt water cooled. im thinking a blocked thermo stat heats up to quick also is your timing corect chuck some cowgone in the radiator about 4 table spoons and drive it for awhile the enpty the radiator cowgone is a fab softner its in powder form

What does the cowgone do ?

Sorry i'm not very knowledgeable on these things.

[ari666]

1. Could the spark plugs possibly be causing some of the issues? They seem very old.

2. How could i unblock a blocked head gasket?

1 absoluteley. incorrect heat range or gapped plugs CAN over heat, but no where near as fast as what you are describing.

2. LOL, i have NFI. never heard of a blocked head gasket.

i think the washing powder idea is to unblock you rad, but coldfishface's suggestion is much better which is to reverse flow the heater core, which will push any crap out in the direction it doent normally flow at.

best way to unblock a radiator yourself is to take it out of the car. lay the rad on a nice flat surface (so you dont punch holes in it) fill it to the brim with water and then 'pan for gold' i.e. swish the water fast from one side to the other by holding one end up high, then the other. you will see tonnes of rusty muddy crap coming out. keep repeating the 'panning' till all the water that comes out is clear.

then stick a garden hose in one of the heater pipes(quite high water pressure, but not too high to blow out your core) then stick it in the other pipe. till all the rusty crap comes out.

but yeah, check thermostat and radiator cap first.

oh p.s. water coming out your exhaust in the morning is perfectly normal. the exhaust holds quite a bit of condensation so there may be quite a lot. as ong as it stops coming out once she is warm, your ok

[VK SL 3800]

If you feel the engine isn't breathing well the first thing id be checking would be my air filter, then have a quick look down the carb to check for any abnormality's, also start it up with out the filter on and have a listen/ rev to see if it feels better, sometimes an air filter can look alright but not be, just make sure theres nothing to get sucked down the carb............
Engine timing can also play havoc to your temp, you would be surprised. Check your dizzy for signs of movement and correct if necessary. i would install a inline coolant filter to catch all the crap coming off the block and if you drain the radiator visually check if you can to see the visible core of the radiator through the cap isnt blocked up with crap. ( thats if its not a cross flow style like commodores) cant remember what they have in them.
I highly doubt a blocked gallery because you hydraulic lifter would get clunky and the head being furthest away begins to get tappy with lack of oil, start a red motor thats been sitting for a while and this is quite notable as not much oil get pumped up there at idle and youll here the tappets slowy get quieter as more oil get up and around the head.
The way you describe it i would say there is poor coolant flow through the system somewhere, or the water pump could have corroded out, definently replace the thermostat as its a cheap and easy to do job.

[Tree cutter]

It could be your transmission slipping that is causing the loss of performance. This will also make your car run hot as the trans cooler line goes into the bottom of your radiator and can heat up the coolant.
Pull the trans dipstick out and see what colour the fluid is and also smell the fluid. If is is a brownish colour and smells burn't then your trans has been slipping. The trans fluid should be a red colour. It might be worth servicing the trans because there is a filter in there that can block up and cause your trans to loose oil pressure and slip.

[mainpath]

thanks for the continued replies they have been helping me a great deal.

I pulled out the dip stick last week colour is red and doesn't smell like anything burnt, but i'll check again today when i go downstairs to do some work, the fluid is (still) a bit low as i haven't added any extra in, I have a feeling that the gauge might be a bit funny because this morning it was fully on RED in the heat department, and normally if the car is that hot it'll push out all the coolant? no?
I tried it today where i didn't stop while it was on red, then parked and checked the temp of the engine by opening the bonnet and i'll be honest it didn't feel any hotter then normal.

But as a precaution i'll be doing the following today.

- Radiator Flush (with new coolant)
- Replace thermostat
- New Belt
- Add additional automatic fluid.
- Make sure everything is clean in the carb department.

I'll keep you all posted about the findings.
I might post some pics of what i find.

[leigh 7005]

also to check the head gasket take youre plugs out and crank it over and see if water shoots out in the morning befor u drive it and dont stick ur face to close coz itll come out in alot of force it dose sound like a dodgy gauge though

[mainpath]

I think we might have found the issue, but i will check that Leigh7005 i appreciate your thoughts ( i hope it isn't that as well)

What we found was that the thermostat was closed shut and gasket (well where is the gasket) basically it had half disappeared, so this morning we are going to get a new thermostat and check how things go after that, but when we disconnected the radiator you all just don't wanna know what was in their. So we will be treating the cooling system to one of those 20min radiator flushes and replace it with fresh coolant.

will reply soon with results.

[codfishface]

Good to hear champ.

Maybe not out of the woods yet, but you're on the right track!

[mainpath]

Finally......

Oh my god was this a nightmare waiting to happen.
So we broke the thermostat housing and then we couldn't get our hands on another one.

So finally after we located one @ pick and pay less, cleaned it up and did the job properly, flushed the radiator however the temperature is still going up even if the engine is cold as i've noticed, so we did some test and put it down to the fact that the gauge is totally stuffed as well as an electrical fault in the car because the demister, break light & fuel gauge all don't work correctly. Both the break light and demister lights are now always on.

So i'm guessing it's a combination of faulty gauge and electrical issue. I'll be booking it in on friday for someone to take a look at it and i'll write back once it's been looked at.

[bloodyricho]

with your oil look for a oil that is for older engines and diesels. The ones that do older engines and diesels have extra "soap" additives that clean out gunk. I have used straight diesel oils to clean out 202's change out when as soon as it gets black or 2000 km's keep using the diesel oil till you start to get clean changes at respectable k's then go back to a good oil. get a blue motor thermostat housing it has a good hole for after market temp gauge sender unit