vl axles into vk diff

[stickym]

does anyone no if vl axles can go into a vk borgwarner diff without shortening them? preferebly lookin at 28 spline vlt or most likey vl v8 axles into a vk borgwarenr housing as i cant have a wider diff as my tires already rub on the outer guard. will most likely use a r31 3.9 lsd too which is (im pretty sure) 28 spline as well

[SL/ENUT]

The axles need to be shorten to fit into the VK housing. The housing is shorter than a VL diff.

[VK_3800]

I don't think the housing is any shorter, but the centre is offset differently so they definitely won't fit straight in (short one will be too short and long one too long). The VN short side axle seems to fit the VK Borg Warner short side quite well.

[glenn l]

housing is 1/4" shorter per side.

[stickym]

so even if the axles are only 1/4 inch longer they wont fit? wouldnt they just slide into the center a littler bit further lol

[glenn l]

im not sure.

[VK_3800]

You could probably get away with trimming 1/4" off the end of the axles, but as above they won't fit anyway because the centre has a different offset

[VR38]

but as above they won't fit anyway because the centre has a different offset

the VK BW78 and VL BW78 have different offset????

[VK_3800]

Yes the short axle is longer and the long axle shorter in the VK 1/2 Borg Warner, when compared to the VL version.

Also, I don't know where the idea came from that the VK one is shorter than the VL one, it is not. I measured both (Borg warner) housings yesterday and there is absolutely no difference. If you were comparing drum and disc brake models there may be around 3mm per side difference in that, but nothing in the diff itself.

[VR38]

Yes the short axle is longer and the long axle shorter in the VK 1/2 Borg Warner, when compared to the VL version.

All else being the same that would mean that the tail shaft does not run down the centre in one or the other...

[VK SL 3800]

Also, I don't know where the idea came from that the VK one is shorter than the VL one, it is not. I measured both (Borg warner) housings yesterday and there is absolutely no difference. If you were comparing drum and disc brake models there may be around 3mm per side difference in that, but nothing in the diff itself.

That probably comes from the earlier VK salisbury diffs being compared to VL ones.

[stickym]

so im a little confused will the axles fit or not? some say the housing is the same . some say its different some say its the off set ? y would it be offeset

[VK_3800]

All else being the same that would mean that the tail shaft does not run down the centre in one or the other...

Correct, its not by a lot though - remember that prior to this the driveshafts were all all off centre due to the axles being equal length in the Salisbury diffs (thus moving the pinion off centre).

so im a little confused will the axles fit or not? some say the housing is the same . some say its different some say its the off set ? y would it be offeset

The VL axles will not fit. As stated above the short side will be too short, and the long side too long.

[VR38]

Correct, its not by a lot though - remember that prior to this the driveshafts were all all off centre due to the axles being equal length in the Salisbury diffs (thus moving the pinion off centre).


The VL axles will not fit. As stated above the short side will be too short, and the long side too long.

Common mate, come clean, you are just making this up as you go along right?
You do not really believe that they made one model commodore with the tailshaft to one side and another with the same diff but the tailshaft centred so they could use different length axles.

[VK SL 3800]

If its true it wouldnt have been changed by holden as the diffs are made by borgwarner and it might be a later revised design.

[VK_3800]

Common mate, come clean, you are just making this up as you go along right?
You do not really believe that they made one model commodore with the tailshaft to one side and another with the same diff but the tailshaft centred so they could use different length axles.

I have both diffs here, the VK 1/2 one is offset differently to the VL, full stop.

Prior to the introduction of the Borg Warner diffs, Holden used equal length axles left/right in all their diffs. The Borg Warners however used a short/long axle combination which allowed the pinion and thus driveshaft to be better centred. The VK 1/2 was the first incarnation of this diff in Holden/Commodore, so its not unusual that there would be some revision/modification after that. Just look at the S1 VN V6s for another example, use whatever is available at the time for the first model, then alter as needed in later models.

The left/right position of the driveshaft in the tunnel doesn't vary much regardless (there would be clearance issues otherwise) and has no significant effect on the length. However it can have an effect on universal joint lifespan and possibly vibration, its best to try to keep the angles to a single plane where possible.

[bradj]

So many uneducated experts making statements here. If you dont know for sure, dont post as you are only confusing the issue for people who are looking for advise before they waste their money.
I have personally made all the mistakes possible trying to find axle/diff combo's because of b---s--t being spun on here.
Here is the facts: VK 6cyl model BW or 9 bolt diff housings, (VK, V8 still had the 10 bolt salisbury), have the same diff centre housing and axle tubes as the VL range and are the exact same overall width. However they have the centre welded slightly offset compared to the VL range. The VL 28 spline centre will fit into the VK housing no trouble, however the VL 28 spline axles are different lengths, (due to the change in offset), and cant be used in the VK housing.
The only difference in the diff overall widths, is when drum or disc brakes are fitted.The disc brake rotors are thicker at the hub mounting face than the drum brakes, so they effectively alter the overall final track width by approx 3mm per side when interchanged.
Ford and Holden 28 spline axles share the exact same axle spline pitch and diameter and can be interchanged when looking to shorten the housings.
A local company here had metalurgy tests done on both Ford and Holden axles and found the Holden axles are a better quality part, with more consistant and thorough hardening on the Holden items. They now use them only, when making up shortened axles for Ford and Holden 28 spline diff's.

[stickym]

so your saying the housings are teh same length anyway so if i put a vl diff in with disc brakes or a vk converted to disc brakes it will be the same length so would be better off using a vl diff really>? from wat i can work out thats wat your saying >?
thanks mate . atleast some one can help me out . cheers buddy

[VR38]

Here is the facts: VK 6cyl model BW or 9 bolt diff housings, (VK, V8 still had the 10 bolt salisbury), have the same diff centre housing and axle tubes as the VL range and are the exact same overall width. However they have the centre welded slightly offset compared to the VL range. The VL 28 spline centre will fit into the VK housing no trouble, however the VL 28 spline axles are different lengths, (due to the change in offset), and cant be used in the VK housing.

I can't comment because I do not have a VK diff here but for the life of me I can't believe Holdens would make a car where the tailshaft did not run centred between the gearbox and diff, sorrry.

[VK_3800]

so your saying the housings are teh same length anyway so if i put a vl diff in with disc brakes or a vk converted to disc brakes it will be the same length

Yes.

so would be better off using a vl diff really?

There's no reason one would be better than the other really if they are identical in every other way (axle spline etc), go with whatever is easiest/cheapest/best for you.

I can't believe Holdens would make a car where the tailshaft did not run centred between the gearbox and diff, sorrry.

Believe what you like if it makes you feel better, but if you don't know for certain then don't make public recommendations.

[VR38]

Quote Originally Posted by VR38 View Post
I can't believe Holdens would make a car where the tailshaft did not run centred between the gearbox and diff, sorrry.

Believe what you like if it makes you feel better, but if you don't know for certain then don't make public recommendations.

OK seeing you know soo much tell us all the offset measurement and the of the diff and tailshaft.

[VK_3800]

OK I think this is what you are asking for; these are by no means accurate measurements but you get the idea.

This is the VK 1/2 short side axle tube:


This is the VL short side axle tube:


Both are measured from the same place, the outside edge of axle tube flange (i.e. the very extremity of the bare housing). Both diffs are approximately 1400mm end to end also measured from the outside of the axle tube flanges.

For reference, this is the driveshaft in a VK with VL diff:

You can see how the 30-odd mm difference (the VK diff would move it further to the right) wouldn't be a significant issue to how the driveshaft fits in the tunnel (the same centre bump stop is still just as useful). It does however make all the difference as to what axles will fit in the housing.

I've sat the standard VN axles next to the VK 1/2 axles and, as stated above, the short side ones are all but identical (the VN one could need a mm or two trimmed off the very end just to be safe). I don't seem to have any pics though and I'm not going to pull them out again now.

[VR38]

Not even close, you stated that the centre of the diff pinion was offset, EDIT; If you have measured both short sides then all you have shown is that one diff is wider than the other, everybody agrees on this.

So asking the question again, can you give me the pinion offset difference that would put the tailshaft offset from one diff to the other?

[VR38]

Oh and while you are there, measuring the centre of the pinion to the outside (which I assumed you had already done to make such an informed statement) can you also measure the overall width of that VK BW diff as I have a VL one sitting here to compare.

[VR38]

OK I think this is what you are asking for; these are by no means accurate measurements but you get the idea.

This is the VK 1/2 short side axle tube:

My VL 6cyl sedan diff comes in at 495mm...