Carby VK not starting...getting spark & fuel

[zaczac]

having a frustrating time with my project car.

it is a black 202 carby VK with an electronic dizzy.

I tried some Bosch plugs and it ran then crapped itself after 5 seconds. and now wont start. It cranks and sounds like it wants to start but no go.

checked all fuses...OK


SInce then I have replaced; dizzy cap, rotor, leads, coil, and module.

It is getting plenty of fuel as I can see/smell it and carby was recond.

It gets a spark when I use a test plug, but still wont start even though it sounds close.

Timing has also been advanced/retarded

what else could it be as it was running so well before I changed the plugs?

j

[redrags]

you could have gotten dodgy plugs... could be the distributor

[zaczac]

yeah I am going to try brand new NGK's when I can get to store.

hope thats it as the old plugs are probably so fouled now from all the attempts to start

j

[ari666]

so what bosch plugs? what was the heat range and gap?

your plugs wont get fouled from attempting to start, so dont worry. im wondering if they are any good to start with. to start with the gap is prolly most important.

have you tried holding WOT while attempting to start it?


wait wait wait.... so it was runing fine, then you changed plugs... then it didnt run fine?

why dont you put the old plugs back in?

also wondering if you maybe put a lead or two back on the wrong way. double, triple, and quadriple check the firing order.

[zaczac]

all done.

tried all of the above.

brand new leads checked 10 x times over.

but will go over everything again when I get time.

I tried the old plugs, new plugs, etc and all gapped right etc

j

[ari666]

you checked the voltage going to the coil. now here is the tricky bit. have you checked the voltage going to the coil when you crank it? there are two stages to the + coil, one is the 'on' position and one is the 'start' position. if something has happened to the 'start' circuit, i.e. burned out fuse or ignition switch, it may be getting power while 'on' but not 'start' which will stop it starting.

other than that im kinda out of ideas.

what brand/part number is the new coil? if you checked the timing (with a light) checked + to the coil, checked your firing order, tried starting at WOT, and everything is correct, then im stumped. sorry.

oh! check vacuum hoses? you may have knocked one off perhaps? the brake booster hose would stop her from starting if it wasnt connected. or the PCV.

[undersuspicion]

Hey mate, i had the same problem with my vk when i had it. It ran fine and then decided it wouldnt start. Turned out the Electronic spark timing computer crapped itself. So i had the dizzy changed to one off the blue motor with out the computer and it was all good. Cost me $400 to get it all done that included towing and a call out fee of auto sparky. Might be worth giving that a go.

[ari666]

it is a black 202 carby VK with an electronic dizzy.j

yep. i assume that means none of the est crap.

[undersuspicion]

yep. i assume that means none of the est crap.

Ah roger boss. I missed that bit.

[zaczac]

thanks guys,
yes there is NO computer in the EST as already running electronic dizzy.
All seems to be hooked up etc and getting a bit of spark at plugs but does not seem strong.
I had some dodgy wiring with ignition switch when I removed the crappy old imobiliser so will re-solder all joins when get time as maybe this is issue??

I will check for any vacumm leaks

when I put bosch plugs in it ran for 5 seconds gave a bit of a pop and died, now it just cranks and cranks but just dont start.


I will do the re-wire and see how that goes as I have looked up wiring diagrams and changed all fuse etc even ones that all appeared OK.

finger crossed....

j

[ari666]

what carby is it running? if holley, does it have the blowback valve, or is it an early one? later holleys hae this little ball bearing inside that protects the power valve from backfires. if the ball isnt there the diaphram pops and fuel just flows into the engine.

also still need to know what coil you put on it. if the spark is dull, then it maybe the wrong type.

[zaczac]

will sus out the holley as it is an older 320 holley and was just recond, but there was a pop type sound.

Coil is exact copy of old one (mate in autobarn got correct one for me)

I have been checking all leeds etc and resitance on them and seem good as they are new also (compared the readings to the older leeds)

spark seems pretty good when I tried a diff test spark plug (the old gregory's giude said to have a 6mm gap and this is too big for testing, but on normal gapping it gets good spark)

I will talk to my mate who is a holley guru and get him to sus that out

oh and I re-soldered wire joins and still no go.


thanks

j

[zaczac]

update;
still not going.
spoke to another mech and he is stumped too, but suggested I see how far spark is jumping from leed to earth, so tried that and getting strong blue spark jumping a good inch from end of leed. So I am starting to think I should get holley looked at again and pull her apart??

checked all leeds, tried advanced and retarded timing, new plugs again (NGK) all gapped etc, still nothing!!

AAARRRRGGGGHHHH

j

[ari666]

are you checking the timing with a timing light?

[brutal]

...
I tried some Bosch plugs and it ran then crapped itself after 5 seconds. and now wont start. It cranks and sounds like it wants to start but no go.
...

I have a similar problem with me old VC. 253 (blue), elec dizzy

It started of it would run for a few minutes then die and not start again until a few days later. Now it just wont start!
I have replaced lots of the things you have mentioned, but there are a few other things that i will try.

The only hint i have is the 'fast idle' device thingy, which i previously (years ago) noticed would kill the engine if diconeected. I have heard you can bypass it, but it might be quicker just to try a new part!

Very interested to see how you solve your probs!

[zaczac]

cant use timing light as it wont start to be able to check timing. But whether I have it set as it was, advanced or retarded it makes no diff and still wont start.

if something has happened to the bottom cog of dizzy would it result in the rotor button moving freely? or should I pull whole dizzy out and check.

I also spoke to a mate who mentioned the 'pick up' in dizzy but that they don't make them so would eed a whole new dizzy...is this right? as I already replaced module etc

j

[ari666]

you can use the timing light whether it starts or not. as long as a pulse travells down the lead, the light will flash so even when your cranking it itll still flash. an other good easy test would be to put the timing light on each lead and just watch to see if the timing light lights up. if the light doesnt flash, then there is something not working.

that bottom cog could cause all sorts of problems if its worn, but seriously.. check with the timing light before you pull anything out. it really sounds like your timing is way off.

pick ups in dizzys are a magnet and a trigger wheel, chances of breaking: very slim.

[zaczac]

I thought timing too, but it was never changed when this car just went pop and stopped.
Also I have tried moving the timing to all sorts of advances from one extreme to the other (and I mean extreme) and none still start car.
I am getting holley checked out by mate as there seems to be a lot of fuel getting to plugs (soaked when I check them) but I am getting good 1 inch long blue spark out end of leeds and new plugs in too.
I have checked for vacumm leaks but will go over her again.
There is no EGR valave etc as all that was off when extractors were on car etc (and all running fine)
Is there any other mech possible causes for this? Am I right in saying there is no timing belt in these old girls? is there any other things that can change timing? ie any mech breakages etc?
any other possibilties??? as I am stumped.

[ari666]

there is a timing chain (dont know 6's so could be wrong) which if broken will cause all sorts of issues.

im still gonna bet the timing is out. im serious i will give you 100... 50.... ok 20 bucks if you get a light and the timing is accurate. ok, how bout this, buy a timing light and if im wrong i will pay for the light. no sh1t.

[zaczac]

LOL,
I will get a mate to come do it for me as I have no idea on timing old cars and he will show me.... thanks mate

[ari666]

its easy. get one of these:
Inductive Xenon Bright Car Timing Light Tool 12 volt - eBay Other, Tools, Car, Truck Parts, Cars, Bikes, Boats. (end time 17-Oct-10 11:07:34 AEDST)

one lead gos to battery + one to - and when pulse current goes from the dizzy to the spark plug, the timing light picks it up and flashes. its nothing special, no fancy light show, it just lights up everytime electricity passes through the lead and the timing lights inductive coil.

and i swaer to god, cross my heart, if im wrong, you get a free timing light

[VK SL 3800]

No chain in sixes, have gears. Cam one is fiber and tends to chew on early girls but not common on later ones. If the dizzy still spins the gears are right. Try running it on aerostart or something. Check your leads for shorts ect, i have a funny problem with my saw bench engine atm, its an old 161 red motor and will have a dead miss if you plug the lead on fully but will run fine if you just sit the lead on top of the plug without pushing it down very weird. Check your dizzy earth and power wires. Try disconnecting the fuel line before the pump as the float in the carb maybe overfilling it poring fuel down the throat and choking it (never touched a holley so i dont know where the fuel goes if they get to full) If its almost starting just keep it planted as suggested above, any smoke? Do a compression test if your still having troubles.

[zaczac]

has new leeds and plugs (resistance checked all leeds and good), new dizzy cap, new coil, all connections checked, new module, getting good blue spark out end of leeds. So I am looking elsewhere now, and a mate is going to look at Holley over weekend as the plugs are getting soaked in fuel, but no ignition.
Have not compression tested but would all 6 cyclinders go at once? as it was purring before it shat itself.
PS checked float level and mixture level on carby before I took it off and all good, (Holley has a float sight on side and perfect level as per Holley instructions). But mate is a holley nut so still going to check it for me.
thanks
j

[zaczac]

its easy. get one of these:
Inductive Xenon Bright Car Timing Light Tool 12 volt - eBay Other, Tools, Car, Truck Parts, Cars, Bikes, Boats. (end time 17-Oct-10 11:07:34 AEDST)

one lead gos to battery + one to - and when pulse current goes from the dizzy to the spark plug, the timing light picks it up and flashes. its nothing special, no fancy light show, it just lights up everytime electricity passes through the lead and the timing lights inductive coil.

and i swaer to god, cross my heart, if im wrong, you get a free timing light

OK who do I send my address to for a free timing light?? LOL just kidding

My car is now going!!! and it turned out to be a loose screw in carby...flooding the engine.

It was the screw in mouth of holley that holds down the 'plunger' (or something like that) where the fuel actually squirts out of into throat of carby.

it was so loose fuel was just flooding even at idle, so all fixed and running. just need to re-tune the holley as got manula choke kit on it now.

WOOHOO

j

[ari666]