steering vibration/ shocks

[c2105026]

hey guys,

My VB has developed a steering vibration. Albeit it only occurs at high speeds (110+), still is an irritation. The wheels have been balanced - twice, with the wheel trims on - and the front end has been gone over twice (bushes, bearings, the LOT!!!), nothing untoward going on there. Only thing it could be is one of my shocks as found to be leaking at road worthy. Could that be the source of the high speed vibration? Rest of car is not vibrating (i think).

Secondly, my shocks were the original ones fitted (still feature holden quality control markings!) and being 31 yrs old are probably due for replacement, what brand of shocks could people suggest? I have been quoted $450 for monroe, $480 for pedders, and $250 for Gabriel from supercheap (set of 4). Genuine holden shocks no longer available. I intend to fit the set of 4 myself. Any thoughts?

[SL/ENUT]

Got Gabriel on my SL/E. Very nice and tight. However, the vibration could also be the bearing in the steering column.

[VK SL 3800]

Could possibly be the rotors out of round, though very unlikely. if they have been on there a while you never know what rust could have done/ eaten inside the fins, my VK originals are very rusty on the inside.

[vkberlina]

I bought Koni Adjustable for my VK havent put them in yet but pretty pricey. Good quality gabriel, monroe etc will do most cars fine.

My work ute had an issue of bad steering vibrations wandering all over the road, I was amazed when I put new shocks in it the difference it made to the overall drivability of the ute. I bought Koni adjustable for that too and I am still needing to play with setup, rears are good but fronts are still a little firm.

Whne you do shocks it would probably be a good idea to do front ball joints as well as they would be pretty second hand by now

Scott

[c2105026]

ok, thanks for the responses; the bearing in the steering column is a little loose but I do not have a press, and it appears noone else in town doesn't either (that is the holden dealer and my regular mechanic). Might check to see if anyone in my local car club does....I think i have the actual bearing out in the garage, still in its wrapper.

The steering is not chattering upon brake application about town, and the rotors just got machined 3000km ago, so probably not the brakes. As of 15 mnths ago the balljoints were 'brand new' according to my old holden expert who did a post-purchase inspection; since then has done 10,000km. For some reason I still have some spare balljoints.

From the sounds of it Gabriels seem ok; they may not be as good as the pedders but due to performance and general handling limitations I take it easy in the VB

[vkberlina]

ok, thanks for the responses; the bearing in the steering column is a little loose but I do not have a press, and it appears noone else in town doesn't either (that is the holden dealer and my regular mechanic). Might check to see if anyone in my local car club does....I think i have the actual bearing out in the garage, still in its wrapper.

The steering is not chattering upon brake application about town, and the rotors just got machined 3000km ago, so probably not the brakes. As of 15 mnths ago the balljoints were 'brand new' according to my old holden expert who did a post-purchase inspection; since then has done 10,000km. For some reason I still have some spare balljoints.

From the sounds of it Gabriels seem ok; they may not be as good as the pedders but due to performance and general handling limitations I take it easy in the VB

WTF??? How the hell do they do wheel bearings without a press?? In a bind I have used a piece of pipe and a hammer but anyhow. When you replace the top bearing of the column you HAVE to grind off the diecast cap over the bearing, remove it then drill the housing and either fit a cap over the top or use grub screws. When holden usually did them they sold a complete top, thats why i have one sitting there in its box for my car.

with this new information I would say youmay have something loose, K frame/radius arm bushes my be flogged out, but my money is on shocks. I would consider monroe shocks I have a set of monroes in my VK your welcome to as soon as I get around to pulling them out to fit my new koni ones, nothing wrong withthe monroes just i have something better. I dont hold much faith in pedders stuff.

An older car can handle well, if setup correctly can handle as good or better then a new car

scott

[VK SL 3800]

Im sure you can find a press, there a few mine sites in and around orange and i know their workshops have a press for starters, surely somebody in town would have one! And my rotor idea was just a possibilty, it is pretty far fetched haha.

[c2105026]

WTF??? How the hell do they do wheel bearings without a press?? In a bind I have used a piece of pipe and a hammer but anyhow. When you replace the top bearing of the column you HAVE to grind off the diecast cap over the bearing, remove it then drill the housing and either fit a cap over the top or use grub screws. When holden usually did them they sold a complete top, thats why i have one sitting there in its box for my car.

with this new information I would say youmay have something loose, K frame/radius arm bushes my be flogged out, but my money is on shocks. I would consider monroe shocks I have a set of monroes in my VK your welcome to as soon as I get around to pulling them out to fit my new koni ones, nothing wrong withthe monroes just i have something better. I dont hold much faith in pedders stuff.

An older car can handle well, if setup correctly can handle as good or better then a new car

scott

The wheel bearings at the front just sit inside the hub, and are held in by a nut on the outside of the hub. Come to think of it there is a place that may have a press (one of the brake and clutch places), I got them to do my rear axle oil seal (I think that needs a press) will check it out........whilst I am under the car replacing the shocks, I might check the mountings for the subframe, engine mounts, and steering rack.

[c2105026]

UPDATE

Shocks were replaced, pedders, got them to do it. Car rides/handles much more confidently.

Steering still shook.

Got it up on stands and had a look myself - appeared that rack had significant play in it.

Took it to front end specialist who confirmed my suspicions. New rack being put in today.

[c2105026]

UPDATE

Problem largely gone under 115kmh, still there but tolerable. New rack gives much more precision and feedback, quite pleased with it, even though it is a reco unit. Will now rotate tyres front to back and vice versa, see if that does anything......

[VK SL 3800]

Its not the wheels needing balancing is it?

[c2105026]

NOOOOO!!! Have already been balanced off the car FOUR times!!! Next alternative is to get them balanced on the car, like they were in the old days before computerised machines. Have found a place in the next town who can do this (is basically a dead art). Apparently the original discs that came out were not balanced.....then again, the VS uses the same basic rotor, have not heard of these requiring an on-car balance.

Next job would be to replace the top centre bearing in the column. Is a big job, so will be doing that as a last resort.....

[DerekP]

I would have thought that the steering is vibrating as a consequence of something else out of whack, rather than the steering column (or bearing) itself. As VK SL 3800 posted on the 1/12, it could be the rotors, they are afterall 31 y/o and undoubtedly seen a lot of action, and it seems you have replaced / fixed most everthing else that would cause this.

IMO.

[c2105026]

well, the rotors have been replaced (oct '09) and after inspecting them don't seem to be corroded internally. However inside the ventilation fins they were a bit lumpy, but this seems to be the casting itself. They were brand X rotors, $20 each from supercheap. Next time i'm in supercheap will see what the better quality $100 ones look like.

[DerekP]

$20 Supercheap rotors sounds like it could be the problem, especially if you have identified 'lumpy' areas. Have you considered getting some original used rotors from a wrecker to try?

[Not_An_Abba_Fan]

I still think it is wheel balance related.

If the machine isn't calibrated correctly you will still get a vibration.

How are the tyres themselves? Any irregular wear? When they spin on the balancer, do they move up and down? When they are balanced, do they use a centre cone or the five finger type clamp that goes into the wheel stud holes? The five finger clamp is more precise, find a place that has one of those.

[c2105026]

the tyres at front were cupped a bit, tread wear was irregular. did a rotation this morning, front to back and vice versa. did help. and to boot i checked the intermediate coupling just now, which seemed fine. Tyres now on the front were balanced on a five-fingered setup.

at 100 on a dodgy country road problem is gone. now it comes in at 115, but i shouldn't be driving my heritage vehicle that fast lol!

at this point its a) cheap rotors that are out of balance themselves b) wheels require on car balancing or c) the top column bearing or d) a combination of the 3......

[Not_An_Abba_Fan]

I'll put my money on d) a tyre/balance problem. Especially since it changed after rotating the tyres.

[c2105026]

Yeh, I'm not sure how old the existing tyres are, they had a lot of tread left on them. No visible cracks etc. but they are bridgestone b249s, non-retread, google search reveals they are still being sold so they are not that old. Could be trye related, i.e. not mounted properly, separating radial bands. Which means a new set of tyres which is a long way off finacially. Tyres could even be from a bad batch with varying sidewall stiffness.

There is a bit of a buildup of crud on the inside of rims - will clean that up, see if it does anything.

I do not feel on car balancing will help; the 1978 GMH workshop manual I have directs the wheels to be balanced off the car.....

[VK SL 3800]

Are the wheels buckled at all? just food for thought.

[c2105026]

WELL......turns out it was wheel balancing! Found someone who could do this model commodore correctly. Difference was to split up the weights for a more evn distribution. Now I know for the future....BTW cheers to beaurepaires of orange....the thought occurred to me yesterday morning for I had some tyres put on a peugeot 306 that I had there and had no dramas. Thank you all for your input. Took the Commodore on a car club today and it behaved itself.

[c2105026]

well, I was wrong...ITS BACK!!!!! (highway speed steering vibration, that is) Will now look at the control arm bushes, in which there is some clunking. However, I think it is more likely the tyres - they were balanced, now they are out of balance, could be something failing. In fact, come to think of it, prior to my buying it I have no idea how often it was driven - a car resting in one spot for months or years on end may have permanently deformed the radial belts, causing inconsitencey in the tyre stiffness as it drives along the road - causing a wobble! Might get some new tyres, being a 185/75R14 shouldn't be too dear.....

[c2105026]

New tyres fitted - problem seems to have disappeared. Bob jane aussie all-rounders, $360 for a set....

[180sc]

must be a bad shake to go to this extent to fix it! its an old car live with it.

[c2105026]

well, lets just say that when driving from orange to bathurst (~60km) there was enough of a shake for my hands to be numb at the end of the journey. The car is otherwise restored to excellent condition, and having such a shake ruined the whole experience...