202 block preping. Building a motor.

[seq4x4]

Evening guys. Im looking at building a 202. Im going to buy another black 202. But im getting domething with a bore size of 30thou or smaller. As i have heard that bring it out to 40thou is an excelently balanced 202.

What im wondering is what i should do to the block. I will be taking it to a engine builder to do the work to the block.

So far i know i want it honed to 040thou, new welsh plugs, cam bearings and a chem clean.

Basicly what im wanting to know is what else should i get? Things i have heard of are:
Decked, o-ring, blue printed.

I know what oringing is, but un aware if i should get it done.

Im keen to hear some ideas, what im building is a good engine that will last ages, wont leak and put out some power with cams, head work, carbys.

Im looking to spend around $400 just on the block alone (must include cam bearings as im not confident enough to change them myself). So shoot me some ideas, thanks guys.

[soop]

For a start budget more for machine work on the block.

[seq4x4]

What do you mean? Iv never built an engine before, so i have no idea what costs what and that.

[vktorana]

Lol did he just say 202 that won't leak? Well I'd be putting aside a few grand to weld it together! In my opinion from personal experience... Do away with the 202... I had a massive soft spot for em too. Eventually you will just get fed up with all the problems they get. I did the same n spent about 1200 on reconditioning a 202. That didn't include labour. Drove around for a bit n didn't thrash it come round a corner and suddenly died. Distributer gear broke. N fixed that then the carby would play up n then it was overheating. Point is they are old and in my opinion not worth the hastle or the money. Anyways it's up to you lol I just can't wait to say I told you so!

[codfishface]

Have a read here - How To Build A High-Performance Holden Six

Good info, Great starting point.

[Blown V6 Hatch]

Honestly, all you need done to the block is:

Chemically cleaned
Bore & hone
Cam bearings fitted
You can fit welsh plugs yourself.

That's it really, you could have it decked, but you need to be careful of compression ratio. If the block surface is ok (read, flat & straight), it really doesn't need to be decked.

No need at all to O-ring it, that's only for really high comp N/A engine or blown/turbo engines. Not warranted on a street engine.

Blueprinting, again not really warranted on a street engine.

[seq4x4]

Thanks for the info guys, im sticking with the 202 since im a p plater.. Since my engine is near dead im wanting to build somethign thatll last a few years so i dont have to touch it again pretty much or even sell it once im off the Ps.

I dont mind spending the money for a good 202, i just want it to last. Ill be calling a few places to get some quotes for the block tomorrow.

[ari666]

if you want it to last then just stick the stock cam back in and drive it like a baby.

[seq4x4]

This current engine has: Rear main leak, bad oil pressure apparently, blown head gasket, leaky valve (or the smoke could be a result of the head gasket) death rattle at start up in the bottom end.

This is why i want to build a nice 202 that will last and wont let me down.

[vktorana]

P plater hmm ok lol. Well not sure about other states but the new sa laws ya can still do a v6 conversion. Rang everywhere before we started doing my brothers cos he only just got his p's. We gonna put better cams n extractors on it n full exhaust n it will still be legal to drive on p's. But that's in sa so yea

[hiy_po]

Hi As you have shown an intrest in o-ringing your block thought you may like a pic of mine. I run a turbo 202 @ 8 pound of boost 6500 rpm rev limit and has 235rwhp as a daily driver. Other safe guards I have done are notching of the bores for larger valves and helicoils in my head bolt thread bosses and I run a headstud kit.
http://gallery.oldholden.com/hiy_po/...P0463.JPG.html

[seq4x4]

Cheers for the info guys. As for V6 conversion, you can do it here, but its pretty costly too. I had thought about it. I do have june off work as i found out today, so ill look into exactly whats need and the cost and weigh up the options.

Ill check out your gallery now.

[ari666]

pffft! if your going to the extent of V6's then you may as well go V8.

UGH, V6

[seq4x4]

P plater.. Trust me, if i could a V8 would go in no questions asked.

[vktorana]

If ya need any help on doing a v6 conversion let me know. Iv done one already n doing my brothers using the whole vn loom n nearly done. I highly recommend it for p players cos usually got better fuel economy and got as much power as anyone else with a commodore but in an older way better looking car all up my brother has spent 1500 on the conversion 1200 for a pretty good vk 200 on a recon vn I had sittin around then say 200 for bits like vl intermediate shaft etc 350 for engineers certificate n he is gonna go with a full custom exhaust with extractors n has been quoted 800 for that. So all up about 2500 n you already got the car so roughly 1500 - 2000 on the road!

[ari666]

so P platers can drive mod plated cars now?

[vktorana]

Well in sa we got a stupid law come in around November n the restrictions are basically no v8s, no superchargers, no turbos etc and nothing that increases performance by more then 25%. rang about 8 different government places to be certain he was gonna be aloud to drive it. Have no idea about anywhere else but that's the new law in sa.

[bogan_vk]

202s are ok if theyre built right ,ive been kaning the arse out of mine for ages and nothings broke yet but wont take it over 5500 rpm , but as for leaks i even pulled my engine out recently to fix them took my time and the bloody thing still leaks dont put the nylon timing gears back in put steel ones in because they break without notice or reason and leave you stranded and change the gear on your dizzy to a steel one off a v8 .

[Pie-VK]

Personally, I'd put the 202 in a bin, and spend the cash that you were going to spend on the 202 into doing a V6 conversion.

I've been doing a lot of research and from what i've seen/driven, a V6 gives a better power to weight ratio and is (when stock or tuned) better than a kitted 202.

[ari666]

...but after all the money you spent on making it street legal, and the fact that you still cant drive it on your P plates, you wouldve spent less money on a 304 and you have MUCH more scope for horsepower than with a piddly little V6.

[Darren_L]

202's are a good, reliable engine. Yes they leak oil like any rope seal rear main engine, but if they are built properly they are a very reliable engine. The old man rebuilt one for the old HK Holden. Didn't spend a fortune, just did it right. That engine powered a fully loaded HK with roof racks and box trailer from Brisbane to Cairns and back and Brisbane to Melbourne and back without one issue. It continued running without a problem for over 100,000 miles until cancer took over the bodyshell of the HK. Reason why you hear of people having problems with any of the older engines, is because they are such a simple engine, anyone will have a go at rebuilding them, so unfortunately there are are a lot of dodgy 202's around.

don't go over the top with o'ringing bores etc unless you plan on super high compression and/or forced induction. As suggested a chemical clean,rebore, cam bearings and get the rotating assembly (ie crank, rods, pistons, flywheel & balancer) balanced. It's worth the extra money spent. However be prepared to go beyond your $400 budget to do so. But IMO it's better off spending the money on the bottom end, you can always do stuff like porting the head, roller rockers etc later. Doesn't take long to pull the head off a 202.

With a set of flat top pistons, a decent carb (I'd suggest a rejetted Webber off a Falcon), the RIGHT camshaft & valve springs (the likes of Crow or Crane can suggest a suitable cam profile & valve springs to suit your setup and requirements), your 202 should get along rather well. Everyone seems to bag the 202 these days, but seem to forget these engines powered Brocky's Toranas to more than one victory at Bathurst, against the big 351 GTHO Falcons.

[ari666]

Everyone seems to bag the 202 these days, but seem to forget these engines powered Brocky's Toranas to more than one victory at Bathurst, against the big 351 GTHO Falcons.

that is very, very true.

[soop]

Yeah, but that was 40yrs ago mate.
And the Torana weighed about 300kg less then a VH/VK.

(LJ turned in at about 1000kg)

[Darren_L]

Yeah, but that was 40yrs ago mate.
And the Torana weighed about 300kg less then a VH/VK.

(LJ turned in at about 1000kg)

the single stromberg powered 202 powered pre-historic HQ series class cars could lap a racetrack quicker than most V6 Commodores on this forum. And they aren't a heavily modified engine either. I realise the 202 isn't a strong contender for modern day engines, but people seem so quick to dismiss them as a boat anchor, when you can actually spend a bit of money on them (not necessarily a fortune) and still have a car that's going to be able to hold it's own against a lot of the later model V6 Commodores. Might even give some of the old carbed V8's a run for their money. A fairly cost effective combo for a P plater who is willing to do a lot of the work himself.

[soop]

Yeah in that vein, I totally understand what you're getting at. I had a quiet a punchy little 202 in VH commo years ago. They go just as hard as a Buick and dont rattle your teeth out to boot.

Frankly I'd rebuild a 202 before I rebuilt a buick.
That said, in reality I wouldn't bother with either.

At the end of the day, if you're comparing a 202 with a buick (even the ecotec), you'll be hard pressed to split them. Only fanboys will be able to. Speaking purely from a performance aspect.
At least the 202 doesn't sound like a retard being dragged behind a car.