304 Carby or 308 Carby?

[MY_84_VK]

Got a question for you all,
Planning to put a V8 into my VK and stroke it out to a 355 with a nice carby setup.
My question is would I be better off using a black motor block that came stock with the VK/VL or using a later model VN+ EFI motor and putting old school heads on it to run a carby setup?

All input is muchly appreciated!

[ari666]

ok, well you seem to be working backwards.

what you want to be doing is getting a VK 308, so you have the VT*** engine prefix, then sticking VN style heads on.

1000's of threads about this subject mate. do a search.

[soop]

VN heads with a carby manifold

[MY_84_VK]

I thought the VN heads were different to the old 308 heads, so I should be able to use VN heads and throw a 308 brock carby manifold on it?

[ari666]

yeah they are different.

so you are dead set on old school heads? even though you will get a tonne more power from VN's?

[MY_84_VK]

Not dead set on old school heads I just thought that that was the only way you could run a carby setup, if I could take an injected motor rip the injection off and throw a carby on it I'd do that but I didn't think it was possible?

[wez84]

there is a coulple of ways to do it
if you kept the old 308 and wanted to put the the vn heads on (much better then old ones) you will have to change the cam to suit the 304 heads and new carby manifold for the vn heads.
Or if you put the 304 in all you will have to do is change it to a carby manifold.
Assuming the 308 it a black motor is should be a turbo gearbox pattern which is the same as the newer 304

[ari666]

if I could take an injected motor rip the injection off and throw a carby on it I'd do that but I didn't think it was possible?

thats what i would do.

im stuck with early heads. CBF replacing my inlet manifold, cam, lifters, extractors etc. wasted a tonne of money going early style. please dont make the same mistake. go vn before you buy anything else for it. then drop on a cheap AT racing world inlet manifold till you can afford something decent.

a quaddy should work really well, but you will need to take it to a fella that knows his stuff cos' in stock form, itll struggle. especially if you throw a cam in there.

[soop]

You'll need and aftermarket manifold.

Google torque power. They're about $800.

[ari666]

Or if you put the 304 in all you will have to do is change it to a carby manifold.

you seem to be forgetting the fact that headers are around 700 bucks, so they are a pretty big expense.

[wez84]

that is true but i thought the op said he was going to put a v8 in his vk so i just assumed that he would have to buy some sort of headers anyways.
And if he was planing on stroking it he must plan on spending money

[soop]

Better of using the 308 block for legallities.

They'll root you up the ass for using a block with a fuel injected serial number...

[MY_84_VK]

Yeah so not planning to spend $800 on a manifold, lol. Yeah for legalities I thought that the 308 block was the best option but they are hard to come by, do you think if I used the later 304 out of a vk with the VA prefix I would get away with it because its out of a VK? Second question is, is the VA block different from the VT in terms of mounting your manifold heads etc? Cause I'm pretty sure dad has a 308 Edelbrock manifold floating around here somewhere and I know that it will go straight onto the early 308 in the vk series (VT prefix), but would it also suit the later 304 in the VK series (VA prefix)?

Oh and to give you guys a heads up, I'm planning to stroke it 355 with most probably a stage 4 cam, roller rockers with a 5 speed celica or supra box behind it.

[ari666]

stage 4 cam with stock heads is a massive waste of time.

but i can talk to you about it till im blue in the face and you will probably still go ahead, so yeah. 304 block is the same as 308. everything bolts up.

dunno why you are thinking about the VA either. nothin special about them, except the stroke is 0.9mm shorter and 1 horse power less. bore is the same so wont make didly squat difference if you go stroker. prefixes on a VK were: VT, VZ, VA, VB, VC and VG. all of them will be accepted by vicroads without looking twice.

so let me get this straight... you are stroking this thing to 355... but you dont wanna spend 800 on a manifold?

[MY_84_VK]

Its not going to have stock heads, I'm getting them done to run unleaded, putting bigger valves in it along with roller rockers, so they will be far from stock.
Yeah I knew the stroke was different I just didn't know if they did anything to the 304 to make them better than the 308 obviously the only way they did that was to throw injection on it.
Isn't $800 on a manifold expensive? I mean the stroker kit I'm looking at is only $1000, I couldn't justify the price of a manifold compared with that, and I wouldn't exactly need a brand new manifold, I could by one second hand thats been sitting around in some guys shed for years and just get it acid dipped and crack tested like the block to ensure theres nothing wrong with it?

[wez84]

putting a massive cam in with out a good manifold and a good port job wont do you any good, not to mention the loss of manifold vacuum a huge cam will cause.
also you should have a look at how much a set of roller rockers are worth they are normally $600 +

[ari666]

Its not going to have stock heads, I'm getting them done to run unleaded, putting bigger valves in it along with roller rockers, so they will be far from stock.

i dont mean to be rude mate, but 1.94 and 1.6 (biggest you can go with unleaded seats) is pretty piss poor. yella terra early heads have 1.6 and 2.02 and VN come with 1.6 and 1.94 stock, then they can go up to 2.08. not to mention the inlet ports are too small to achieve anything over 330 odd horsepower in our heads so you need to have a guy with a grinder and about 1500 bucks.

and i am sorry. but 1000 bucks for a stroker kit??? your f'ken dreaming. unless you are talking procomp, then its probably better than you stick with early heads cos you dont wanna push any horses on their cranks.

i mentioned AT racing worls inlets cos not much can go wrong with a block of alloy, but if you are talking about one of their stroker kits, then i give up on this thread altogether.

[soop]

^^^
Exactly.
You're buying a nightmare for $1000.

[MY_84_VK]

I see, well there goes that idea out the window.... Sounds like I'd be better off just trying to find a car thats had all the engine work done in it and just switching it into my car. Cause by the sounds of it its going to cost me in excess of $4000 easy to build an engine. Hmm well this has shed some light on everything, in that case, what would be the best to do with a 308 for around $2500?

[ari666]

its about 1600 to get flat tops in. you will just squeeze it in to 2500 if you have to buy the engine and everything to go with the conversion.

[MY_84_VK]

Hmmm I can see this is going to be a costly operation on the whole :S. The worked 202 I've got in it now didn't cost me much cause all the work was already done to it, all I had to do was dress it up, maybe I'll get lucky again and find a v8 the same, lol

[ari666]

yep. its an expensive hobby. thats the truth.

[MY_84_VK]

Too bad the best hobby has to be the most expensive one, lol

[ari666]

yeah thats the truth. so you know what i think you should do with your 2500? i think you should get yourself a cheap 308. should be able to pick up a virgin for 800. get one of these for 550: NEW HOLDEN EFI VN LOW RISE CARBY MANIFOLD - In Stock at atracingworld.com get a pair of VN heads in working condition for 400 get some extractors to suit vk efi heads for 700 then get a quaddy for 150

gay, thats 2600 already

then you will still need all the bits to fit the V8, like trans and front springs. hmm. might have to rethink this.

you can have my VK for 5 grand then take all the stuff off it and put it on yours

[MY_84_VK]

The virgin block to start with sounds the best, I want something thats untouched so I know its good , most preferably from an old guy so I know it hasn't had the shit fanged out of it, lol. Not sure about the vn heads, would they be the equivalent of 308 heads that have been done up for unleaded? Extractors hopefully dad has a pair lying around somewhere I think in the shed *fingers crossed* lol. Trans I already have just need a bell housing for it, front springs and brakes are already done. All I really need is an engine and radiator, lol