149 head onto 186???????

[vh_agent_orange]

hello all

ive been searching but cannot find any info..

can any one tell me if a 149 head will fit on a 186? compression ratios if possible and water jacket differences??

heard that it bolts straight on and gives 10-1 compression but unrealiable source so donot want to go a head yet....

any info will be appreciated

car is 85 rts vk 186 red 5 spd stnd

[vkberlina]

A 149 head which is off a red motor out of old EH's will give you an increase in compression. Harry Firth did this on 202s. I believe a 161 is the same as the 149 this will give you adjustable rockers & a compression of around 10.25:1, higher with the head machined down. I dont know exact compression numbers I would CC the head and calculate it myself rather than go off secondhand info.

The 149 usually had a single stromberg carbie. But you should be able to bolt on other manifolds and carb combos.

If your bolting it up to a red 202 it will bolt straight up, If your VK is original then it has a black 202. If you bolt a red head on a blue or black 202 then you have to drill to more water jackets in the head or you can block off the two in the block as blue 202's have 2 extra water jackets in the block & head.

If you bang a red head on it without drilling the extra water jackets or blocking off you will have boiling troubles. My thought is they were put in the blue & black 202s for a reason so drill the head.

cheers
Scott

[vh_agent_orange]

thank you..

my vk has had a different engine put in it, it is orange in colour and has 186 on the side.... would the 149 head bolt straight on mate?

what gas would you recommend running... or maybey just getting the 186 head skimmed would be best.
dont want to touch bottom end as its the best one ive ever had no oil consumption whatsoever.

161 heads are very hard to come by here in nz

dont want to go 202 as ive heard the 186 is the beter motor

thank you for the reply.

mike

[vkberlina]

thank you..

my vk has had a different engine put in it, it is orange in colour and has 186 on the side.... would the 149 head bolt straight on mate?

what gas would you recommend running... or maybey just getting the 186 head skimmed would be best.
dont want to touch bottom end as its the best one ive ever had no oil consumption whatsoever.

161 heads are very hard to come by here in nz

dont want to go 202 as ive heard the 186 is the beter motor

thank you for the reply.

mike

Yes will bolt onto the 186

Gas?? If your running LPG on the car dont go over 10:1 compression, get a gas cam for it also when you put the head on, also check your pushrod lengths you may need to change push rods.
As far as a gas system who knows, I would have a look at what the V8 guys run

cheers
Scott

[Tree cutter]

You will have to run it on premium fuel or it will ping. The 149 head will make your engine pull better at low revs. The 186 head will let your engine rev more if you put stronger valve springs on it because the open combustion chamber shape lets it breath better than the closed chamber design of the 149 head. Fuel economy is much better with the 149 head. Try to get hold of a 186S inlet manifold and carby if you want a bit more power. It is the same 2 barrel carby that is used on 253 red motors with different jets to suit a 6 cylinder motor.

[vh_agent_orange]

bump..
bought the 149 head for my red 186 block.. just have another couple of questions since you guys know your stuff!
will a 186 twin strongburg carb manifold fit on the 149? and was also thinking is it possible to put 202 valves into the 149?
this is the plan

recond 186 block
149 head machined
(good oversized valves(202 maybe), any recomendations?)
twin strongburg carbies
tuned extractors
nice mild cam
hopefully yella terra rollers
torana diff

aiming for around 200 hp n/a ( what do you think this setup will achieve?)

any suggestions are welcomed for or against and no i dont wont to go v8, love the old straight 6s

it is currently a vk (used to be crappy 4 cyl, but now has 186 block,202 head single strongburg and have the 149 head and torana diff sitting there

thanks heaps! best website community ever!!!!!!

mike

[Hangman]

186 manifold should bolt up AFAIK.

Not sure how you're gonna use a Torana diff in a VK. Or why you'd want to...

[L67 Calais]

Found this just after i saw the ol 161 head mentioned......

VB Commodore wrecking | Car Wrecking | Gumtree Magill

[vh_agent_orange]

well torana diff can handle alot more than the vk, the diff is 4 link and was running in an v8 escort,also has 13x10 rims for the diff. wont put the link setup in though.heres my smashed up escort mk1 escort ex track car | Trade Me

any one have an idea of compression it will have and what power it will achieve? i assume its been done but every search turns up with nothing

[Hangman]

You're not talking about a banjo diff are you?

[Calaber]

Vh Agent Orange

I'll try to clear up a few questions for you regarding heads, manifolds etc.

The early red Holden engines (149 and 179) shared the same design cylinder heads but they had different sized combustion chambers. The 179 chambers were larger. Valves and springs were the same. The 179 was simply a larger bore 149. I think the 149 was about 3.25 inch bore and the 179 was about 3.5 inch bore. There was a low compression version of the 149, which ran the standard 179 head, with its larger combustion chamber. Compression ratios were around 8.8:1 for the high compression engines and 8:1 for the low compression 149.

The 161 and 186 were simply bored version of the smaller earlier red motors. 161's had a 3.375 inch bore and the 186 went up to 3.625 inches. Again, the cylinder heads for both engines were the same arrangement - if you wanted a Low Compression 161, a 186 head was fitted. Unfortunately, my records don't give any indication how to tell one head from another. Compression ratios were 8.2:1 for the low compression 161 and 9.2:1 for the high compression motors.


There was also the X2/186S head assembly but these were identical to 179/186 heads, according to my records. (Surprises me actually - I thought they had larger inlet valves.)

The 202 was simply a stroked 186. It would have used similar heads to the 186 but the compression ration was up again. I can't recall the figure but it was around 9.8:1 or 10:1.

Early heads had siamesed intake ports which were very inefficient. Blue and Black motor heads had 12 ports, with separate ports for inlet and exhaust for each cylinder. They are much more efficient and you would be better off trying to get one of those for your 186 block if you can, if you are after performance.

If you have a twin stromberg manifold for the 149 head, it will have had twin BXUV-2 carbs from the factory, which were actually 149/161 carbs, to increase bottom end torque. You can run twin BXV-2's from 186's but because of the larger venturi, they tend to reduce bottom end torque but increase top end breathing. The choice is yours. The carb model number is cast into the base of the carby. Make sure you use identical bases and carb bodies.

Early manifolds will interchange between 149 right up to 202 red motor. Once you get to blue and black motors, you need the manifolds designed for them.

[vkwalks39]

try 179 head mate, then maybe get stroke out 192, thats what i did to our paddock basher, it rev pretty hard. then we got bored with stuck a v8 in it.

[vh_agent_orange]

sorry have know idea what a banjo diff is, were would the serial numbers be on the diff to figure out what it is . by the way the escort has girling type 16p calipers, i know its not holden but are they worth hanging onto?

thanks for the help calaber

[Calaber]

A banjo diff is the type of diff housing used on early Holdens, where the diff centre is removed as a complete unit from the front. Salisbury type diffs have a rear cover plate and you pull the centre out through the back of the housing. That type of diff is used on UC , L34 and later V8 Toranas, all Commodores and larger Holdens with V8's, starting from back in the HK 327 days. Your VH will have a Salisbury diff. There is no advantage to trying to adapt a banjo housing. The Torana diff you mention could be either a banjo or Salisbury, depending on what it came out of.

If you are talking about the ratio of the diff when you talk about serial numbers, you will find the ratio stamped on the circular metal flange at the front of the diff, directly behind the universal joint. It will just have a number like 3.36, 3.55,3.89 or whatever the ratio is.

As for the calipers, I can't help you there, but there are plenty of options for upgrading Commodore brakes, adapting those from later model, larger and heavier Commodores, without going into oddball calipers. There are threads on this forum about upgrading brakes. Check them out.

[SL/ENUT]

L34 used a Banjo, even the LX models as well. The A9X used a larger 10 bolt Salisbury, the UC, VB-VK 6 cylinder/4 bangers used a 8 bolt small Salisbury, the larger 308 powered Commodores up to VK used 10 bolt Sals.

[vh_agent_orange]

ok thanks, the diff back plate is not remove-able as there is no bolts. it has 8 bolts on the diff head .is it worth putting in my vk?

thanks mike

[SL/ENUT]

No, its not worth it.

BTW, the 10 and 8 bolts means the bolts on the crown wheel, not cover plate.

[vh_agent_orange]

oh ok thanks for clearing that up mate.

mike

[vh_agent_orange]

were can i post a project thread? or should i way untill i do must of the work and get most parts together?

[Calaber]

L34 used a Banjo, even the LX models as well. The A9X used a larger 10 bolt Salisbury, the UC, VB-VK 6 cylinder/4 bangers used a 8 bolt small Salisbury, the larger 308 powered Commodores up to VK used 10 bolt Sals.

Yep, right, I stuffed that one and should have known better. I had a mate who owned an L34 back in the mid 70's and he actually went to the trouble of having the rear floor pan changed so that he could fit a Salisbury. Oh, well, I'll put that down to advancing years.....

[L67 Calais]

were can i post a project thread? or should i way untill i do must of the work and get most parts together?

Post Here: Projects

Dont wait, POST NOW!!!!!

[Hangman]

L34 used a Banjo, even the LX models as well. The A9X used a larger 10 bolt Salisbury, the UC, VB-VK 6 cylinder/4 bangers used a 8 bolt small Salisbury, the larger 308 powered Commodores up to VK used 10 bolt Sals.

Correct, all 6/V8 Toranas used a Banjo, except the A9X and UC.

And, no, don't bother with a Banjo, or Bango as they are "affectionately" known...

[vh_agent_orange]

moved to project thread thanks for coments!

[vh_agent_orange]

sorry to bump again, i have alot of people telling me that putting the 149 head on will decrease power is this true? thanks mike

[Calaber]

Mike

It should have smaller combustion chambers than the 179 head, if it's a 149 HC head.This would raise the compression ratio, not reduce it, so power should be slightly increased.