THE definitave V6 Conversion into VB, VC, VH & VK Thread (please post your knowledge)

[L67 Calais]

Hi,

I have been trawling the site for weeks and have scrounged up as much info/pics as i can on doint this conversion.
There is most of the info around (cheers VK SL 3800) but most of the rest of it is scattered here there and everywhere.
My aim is to get all of the info as to what is required to do the conversion & what is required to be changed on the recipient vehicle for the conversion to work.
Mainly after write ups & pics on the difficult stuff, Like massaging the trans tunnel to fir the 4 speed auto (Is it required, What needs to be done)?

Electrical - (can i run the entire engine loom from the computer inc fuse boxes etc)

Tailshaft - Have heard MANY different stories. (have heard that you can use a vk EFI rear end spliced with the VN/VP front end without having to cut/chop/weld the tailshaft at all, is this accurate)

Diff, Apparently the VN/VP diffs will bolt straight in (Any mods required? Will the brake lines need to be re-routed etc?)

K-Frame - Is retaining the standard (VH) setup the best?

Steering - (Modifications required if you change the k-frame etc)

Fuel Tank - (Obviously an extra fuel line is required if your car is not EFI, How to run it ETC)


Please no V6 Conversion Bashing here.

I'm trying to make this the be all and end all thread for this. I will also be posting pics of my efforts too, So if you have any pics POST THEM UP!!!

Cheers

[Darcon666]

Search and ye shall find... good thread by VK3800 V6 Conversion For Vb To Vk

[VK SL 3800]

With tailshafts, you use either a VN/VP front half from the donor car, if its auto you use and VN/VP auto one, and if its manual you use the VN/VP manual one.
The rear section is the confusing bit, in VB-early VK they use a salisbury diff, which has a different rear uni to the later borgwarner diffs found in late vk and vl commodores so tailshafts have different ends on them to suit the different diffs. In VB- early VK you use a V8 commodore rear section from a VB- early VK as the V8's have a larger center CV joint then the 6cyls and the V8 CV joint is the same size as a VN/VP CV joint, and just to confuse things further the early VK EFI 6 cyl has a V8 sized cv joint. keep in mind the shafts are all the same length. Then If you have a late model VK or a VL with a borgwarner you can use the rear section from any old VL as they all had the larger CV joint, you can also use a late model EFI VK rear shaft as they kept the larger CV flange but swapped the rear uni to suit the borgwarner diff.

NOTE: VK V8s were never factory fitted with borgwarner diffs, only late 6 cyls models got them. VL's were the first to be all borgwarner.

VN/VP diffs fit, but are wider and some wheels scrub ect the VN/VP diff uses the same flange for the tailshaft as the late VK/VL.
There are countless ways to wire up a V6, yes you can use the original VN/VP or whatever loom but it involves removing alot of excess wiring.
A T5 manual will fit with no massaging, most people modify there original crossmember by adding some angle iron to either side and drilling slotted holes so it all lines up perfectly.

K-frames, VN/VP whole front ends fit (as they are identical except for rack mounts and the engine mounts), VR VS k frames fit but you must fit the VB-VL suspension to it (all bolts up the same). Most people use a VN power steer rack, the splines on the rack are the same as a VL, so a VL power steer intermediate shaft connects to both the steering column and rack and is the right length. To use a Later rack (ie one with a square drive) you use a VP (VR/VS may work as well) intermediate shaft but you remove the top yolk from the shaft and fit a VB-VL yolk to suit the steering columns spline and then the other end suits the square drive on the rack. I had to file about 1mm out of the cut away in the rack head as the shaft was just a smidgen too long and the bolt wouldn't go through the original cut out.

Fuel tanks, VL-VS tanks fit, VN.VS the filler neck is a little to long and needs to be shortened a little.
Fuel lines, you can use a VK efi setup or a VL 6cyl. You could probably adapt a VNs lines to suit as well but it wouldnt be pretty.

Speedo cable, VN/VP you unsrew the electonic sender and have a cable made up to screw into the drive off the gearbox, the you can either have an inline speed sensor fitted or get the speed sensor input turned off in the memcal.

You do realise their is already a V6 conversion thread though right?
Fell free to correct any errors i have made.

[ari666]

pointless thread is pointless

[180sc]

Ok most points i can answer pretty simple.

Electrical: the fuse/relay box isnt part of the engine loom (ecotec anyway) you can however put in relays and fuses you need and use the factory box for that standard look.

Tailshaft: yes i used vs front half with vl rear fitted perfectly and surprisingly was well balanced.

Diff: Yes vn diff will fit but you are limited in tyre size and rin choice as are wider so a vl diff is a better option.

Kframe: No use vn-vs kframe it keeps all parts off the shelf standard parts.

Steering: use vn rack with vl intermediate shaft anything else will require modification. All v6 powersteer lines will fit.

Fuel tank: Up to vs tank will fit as for lines u used the vs lines as the follow pretty much the same route but as i used wagon the where to long and needed shortening in the middle by a foot so i flared them and used rubber fuel line to join but you could also use brass fittings. make sure all lines are securely mounted and will not have and chance of rubbing on any body parts.

Transmission: I dont have pics but i can tell you that yes for proper drive train alignment the tunnel does need minor surgery to fit the 4l60/4l60e. I will detail this later.

[180sc]

lol started typing phone rang the finished convo and you all beat me to the response lol.

[180sc]

turbo 400 speedo cable fit the t700 drive and up to vh dash but dont know about vk.

[L67 Calais]

The rear section is the confusing bit, in VB-early VK they use a salisbury diff, which has a different rear uni to the later borgwarner diffs found in late vk and vl commodores so tailshafts have different ends on them to suit the different diffs. In VB- early VK you use a V8 commodore rear section from a VB- early VK as the V8's have a larger center CV joint then the 6cyls and the V8 CV joint is the same size as a VN/VP CV joint, and just to confuse things further the early VK EFI 6 cyl has a V8 sized cv joint. keep in mind the shafts are all the same length.

Ok, So because i have an 82 VH, I should be looking for a V8 tailshaft from a VB through to VH as i should have a salisbury diff. (How do i tell the difference between it and the borg just to be sure?)

[L67 Calais]

There are countless ways to wire up a V6, yes you can use the original VN/VP or whatever loom but it involves removing alot of excess wiring.

Ok that's the route i'll take then as it removes the need for the wiring conversion kit. Cheers

[L67 Calais]

A T5 manual will fit with no massaging, most people modify there original crossmember by adding some angle iron to either side and drilling slotted holes so it all lines up perfectly.

I will be using the VP Auto, So how do i modify the crossmember and which one (VP or VH)?
I know you've stated adding some length to the sides but does anyone have any pictures of this?

[L67 Calais]

K-frames, VN/VP whole front ends fit (as they are identical except for rack mounts and the engine mounts), VR VS k frames fit but you must fit the VB-VL suspension to it (all bolts up the same). Most people use a VN power steer rack, the splines on the rack are the same as a VL, so a VL power steer intermediate shaft connects to both the steering column and rack and is the right length. To use a Later rack (ie one with a square drive) you use a VP (VR/VS may work as well) intermediate shaft but you remove the top yolk from the shaft and fit a VB-VL yolk to suit the steering columns spline and then the other end suits the square drive on the rack. I had to file about 1mm out of the cut away in the rack head as the shaft was just a smidgen too long and the bolt wouldn't go through the original cut out.

This part confuses me... So if i use the whole Front end off the VP, I need a VL intermediate shaft and that will direct-fit my VH steering to the VP power steering rack?

[L67 Calais]

pointless thread is pointless

Thanks man

[L67 Calais]

Double post.........

[VK SL 3800]

Your right you want a V8 tailshaft from VB-VH, probably the easiest way to tell what diff is if you look at the filler on the back of the diff, borgwarners have a rubber cap, and Salisbury have a bolt.

I Believe VBRED has a pic of his crossmember, he is using a T5 however. Im not sure if you weld the Angle on so that the crossmember sits at the same height as a T5 setup or if you have to weld it on a little lower so the gearbox can fit into the tunnel, im thinking you might have to weld it a little lower. Its the original crossmember you modify.

To use the whole front end of a VP you either need to swap your steering rack for a VN one and use the VL power steer intermediate shaft and it will all bolt up sweet as a VN uses a spline drive and so does VL, or you can do what i did and use the VP shaft and remove the top yolk and put you VH yolk on it so it still connects to the steering column. VP has square drives, and early models has splined drives. See the pic below, the top shaft is the VP shaft, and the bottom is a VL power steer one. In the pic i have removed the VL ones yolk and it is fitted to the VP one.(your VH one has the same yolk as a vl) Which makes it a splined drive to the steering column and a square drive to the rack. You can see from the bottom where it goes over the rack to the top uni they are both the same length, the VL one is shorter in the middle as it uses a coupler to slide over both the intermediate shaft spline and the rack spline whereas the VP one doesnt use a coupler. My way was cheaper for me because i didnt have buy another steering rack.

[L67 Calais]

Ok most points i can answer pretty simple.

Electrical: the fuse/relay box isnt part of the engine loom (ecotec anyway) you can however put in relays and fuses you need and use the factory box for that standard look.

Tailshaft: yes i used vs front half with vl rear fitted perfectly and surprisingly was well balanced.

Diff: Yes vn diff will fit but you are limited in tyre size and rin choice as are wider so a vl diff is a better option.

Kframe: No use vn-vs kframe it keeps all parts off the shelf standard parts.

Steering: use vn rack with vl intermediate shaft anything else will require modification. All v6 powersteer lines will fit.

Fuel tank: Up to vs tank will fit as for lines u used the vs lines as the follow pretty much the same route but as i used wagon the where to long and needed shortening in the middle by a foot so i flared them and used rubber fuel line to join but you could also use brass fittings. make sure all lines are securely mounted and will not have and chance of rubbing on any body parts.

Transmission: I dont have pics but i can tell you that yes for proper drive train alignment the tunnel does need minor surgery to fit the 4l60/4l60e. I will detail this later.

Excellent, Thanks!

Transmission: I dont have pics but i can tell you that yes for proper drive train alignment the tunnel does need minor surgery to fit the 4l60/4l60e. I will detail this later.

Thats what im after! Cheers, If you could detail that it woulds be great

[L67 Calais]

turbo 400 speedo cable fit the t700 drive and up to vh dash but dont know about vk.

Hmmm, Forgive me but is the T700 the VP auto tranny i'll be using? If so thats a + for me.
What engines/cars was the Turbo 400 hooked up to so i can find one?

[180sc]

Ok yes vn vp vq all use 4l60 to be exact also know as th700r4 they are essentially the same as the 4l60e of later models only they are not electronically operated.
VB VC and some other came out with a 308 turbo 400 combo and you use the cable for one of them they are available off the shelf at any good parts store.

[L67 Calais]

Ok yes vn vp vq all use 4l60 to be exact also know as th700r4 they are essentially the same as the 4l60e of later models only they are not electronically operated.
VB VC and some other came out with a 308 turbo 400 combo and you use the cable for one of them they are available off the shelf at any good parts store.

Sweet! So all i have to do is get a Turbo 400 Accelerator cable and it hooks up to my VP auto AND the back of my dash???
Seems too easy, How come others have had to get special cables etc made?
Thanks for the info

[180sc]

Speedo cable not accelerator others get cables made because they dont try things first. i had a vq statesman turbo 700 in my vb using turbo 400 cable straight fit no dramas.
But i did not have an efi engine instead i had 350 chev and didnt use torque convertor lockup so i didnt require speed signal to return to ecu where you will.

[weston]

Hi,

I have been trawling the site for weeks and have scrounged up as much info/pics as i can on doint this conversion.
There is most of the info around (cheers VK SL 3800) but most of the rest of it is scattered here there and everywhere.
My aim is to get all of the info as to what is required to do the conversion & what is required to be changed on the recipient vehicle for the conversion to work.
Mainly after write ups & pics on the difficult stuff, Like massaging the trans tunnel to fir the 4 speed auto (Is it required, What needs to be done)?

Electrical - (can i run the entire engine loom from the computer inc fuse boxes etc)

Tailshaft - Have heard MANY different stories. (have heard that you can use a vk EFI rear end spliced with the VN/VP front end without having to cut/chop/weld the tailshaft at all, is this accurate)

Diff, Apparently the VN/VP diffs will bolt straight in (Any mods required? Will the brake lines need to be re-routed etc?)

K-Frame - Is retaining the standard (VH) setup the best?

Steering - (Modifications required if you change the k-frame etc)

Fuel Tank - (Obviously an extra fuel line is required if your car is not EFI, How to run it ETC)


Please no V6 Conversion Bashing here.

I'm trying to make this the be all and end all thread for this. I will also be posting pics of my efforts too, So if you have any pics POST THEM UP!!!

Cheers

I have done a V6 conversion to my VH and you seem to have already gotten a heap of help from the guys on here but if needed here is the stuff i have done could be of some help to ya also
Electrical - I gutted the whole VH loom from the car bar the few wires from the heater control, i replaced the VH loom with the whole loom from the series one VN V6 making it easier to hook the motor and auto etc up.

Tailshaft - I have keeped the original whole VH shaft and hope this may be ok yet to find out (someone else may beable to inform me if this could cause problems at all)

Diff - Also the original VH item with drum brakes, (am planning on updateing to a VN disc type down the track just have to work out the rims side of things as the VN diff is about one or two inch wider, have heard the hand brake cable needs to be changed too)

K - Frame - I went with the whole change over to VN, struts and all as they bolt up now dramas (saves on alt things from the V6 to fit in).

Steering - Went with the whole change to VN shaft with just altering the bracket to bolt under the dash and bolt up to the rack now being VN as well. (Steering seem to work correctly so far)

Fuel tank - Removed the VH item and swapped to a VN one with the replacing of the fuel lines to the motor with VL item as to keep the floor shape on the lines just had to remove the external pump on the feed line and sligthly alt path of line in the engine bay.
Also replaced the fuel filler neck to VN as well.

I also have some info on my forum page at "street commodores.com.au" if that helps good luck mate will be good to see some pics and the other feed back from the other guys on here as these forum page guys are a great help.
cheers

[L67 Calais]

I "Borrowed" this post from another site:

the converstion is an all bolt in job basicly. best thing to do is buy a donar car from the auctions like i did. and use the vn k frame. Suspention and breaks too if you want. And if ur useing a th700 box use the standard trans crossmember with a th400 trans mount. But if u sue t5 5 speed ya have to mod the crossmember a little. not much pretty easy if you can weld and again use the th400 trans mount. I have been told i can use my standard vk tailshaft but it wears out centre bearings a lttle more. and also have been told ya can use vn front and vk rear. or just get the vn one shortened should only cost about $150-$200 to shorten.As for radiator you can use the vn one but have to cut a little at the bottom of the rad suport or ya can use a vc vb vh vk vl v8.As for wiring just plug and play basicly.



- He states that if your using the Th700 box (which i will be) that i can use the standard Auto crossmember (VH or VP???) and put the Th400 Trans Mount on it.

Can someone throw some pics up of the crossmember with the trans mount on it so i can see exactly what he means? Is the th400 trans mount a direct fit to the (VH or VP?) Crossmember?

Cheers

[VBRED]

pointless thread is pointless

You can get some serious power out of a six banger with just a few bolt ons.

[VK SL 3800]

Im also using a turbo 400 mount on my crossmember. Its not an automatic but the principle as the same, Turbo 400 bolts to gearbox and bolts to standard auto crossmember.

[L67 Calais]

Your right you want a V8 tailshaft from VB-VH, probably the easiest way to tell what diff is if you look at the filler on the back of the diff, borgwarners have a rubber cap, and Salisbury have a bolt.

I Believe VBRED has a pic of his crossmember, he is using a T5 however. Im not sure if you weld the Angle on so that the crossmember sits at the same height as a T5 setup or if you have to weld it on a little lower so the gearbox can fit into the tunnel, im thinking you might have to weld it a little lower. Its the original crossmember you modify.

To use the whole front end of a VP you either need to swap your steering rack for a VN one and use the VL power steer intermediate shaft and it will all bolt up sweet as a VN uses a spline drive and so does VL, or you can do what i did and use the VP shaft and remove the top yolk and put you VH yolk on it so it still connects to the steering column. VP has square drives, and early models has splined drives. See the pic below, the top shaft is the VP shaft, and the bottom is a VL power steer one. In the pic i have removed the VL ones yolk and it is fitted to the VP one.(your VH one has the same yolk as a vl) Which makes it a splined drive to the steering column and a square drive to the rack. You can see from the bottom where it goes over the rack to the top uni they are both the same length, the VL one is shorter in the middle as it uses a coupler to slide over both the intermediate shaft spline and the rack spline whereas the VP one doesnt use a coupler. My way was cheaper for me because i didnt have buy another steering rack.

Thanks mate!!!

That is some incredibly detailed info there, Exactly what i was hoping for this thread!

Did you do your electrical wiring yourself too?

[L67 Calais]

Here's something that i would like to get some more detail on from the Sticky V6 Conversion thread:

Step 5 – installation
• Fit VN computer and wiring
• Wire into VK electrics. This could be part of the wiring loom adaptor from V6 conversions, not sure as I had an auto elect’ do mine.

^^^^ This, Does anyone have a more detailed write up? The electrics in this conversion would have to be the hardest part!!

Cheers