202 modifications q

[dellarb]

Hey all
Looking at making a few changes to my black 202 in the VK (birthday money ) What I'm mainly thinking of is extractors and/or new exhaust. Firstly, are they worth it on the 202?. Which should i get first if i cant afford both and does anyone have any recomendations for either (Brand or specs etc)? Also if anyone knows a good place in perth that would be real helpful.

Thanks in Advance

[vkberlina]

Here lies a few problems for you.

You shouldnt be disconnecting the EPA polution stuff on the exhaust.

reality is not too many actually would still be working correctly after 20 odd years anyway.
The EGR setup can help to reduce pinging and actually be useful to you.

You could get a secondhand set of VK EFI headers/extractors, have a 2 1/2" pipe welded onto the collector and flanged under the passengers side front seat to join into your exhaust.

Next you could buy a new set of after market headers, sorry I cant recommend bands.

If you want some other good performance options on the cheap.

Get rid of the Varajet II carbie. If you dont plan on going EFI fit a Webber Carbie from an XE falcon. Better performance & economy is achieved.

In duction is where you will probably give most of your poswer, Just one tip generally the exchange reco motors like HM GEM etc Dont take too well to serious modifications a mild head job is about all I would do. Some mild porting, good valve springs not too heavy if the guides have slop get brass ones fitted & new stem seals.
If you are going to build a performance motor you will start throwing lost of $$ at the car. This is where you need to make the decision, Will you keep the car, build an 8 instead of a 6, EFI or Carbie.

Next get rid of the EST computer, buy a second hand Electronic Dizzy from a VH or EFI VK. Make sure the vacuum advance is working before you buy by sucking on the vacuum nozzle. It you suck air the advance is stuffed your looking at $100 for a New one.

Buy a good set of plugs, good 8mm leads, rotor cap & rotor button & a good coil.

I gather since its a 4 speed you probably have either a MC6 Torquemaster or an Aussie M20. The MC6 have a lower 1st gear meaning quicker takeoff for you, both have a final drive of 1:1.
If you have more $$ to spend you might want to consider a 5 speed conversion & a diff swap. options continue up in $$ then $$$
A M76 Borgwarner 5 speed isnt the strongest box in the world should be ok for a mild carbie VK or a stock EFI. I put on in my EFI VK and destroyed 1st & second.
Next option is a Cast iron celica 5 speed not too bad you will need a hydrolic clutch kit though. pretty strong box you need to use a celica clutch plate holden flywheel & pressure plate. You will also need a modified tail shaft.
Next option is a supra 5 speed, be careful here there are different ratio boxes if you go this way make sure you buy the right ratio for you. I think there are 4 different versions.
Final gearbox option is a T5, expensve option but very nice conversion. you get to keep a genuine clutch setup.
Im still looking into different 5speed gearbox options for my car I havent settled on anything yet.

Next is your diff, if you have an 84 VK odds are your running a Salsbury 3.08 Diff. changing the ration to 3.36 or 3.46 will improve take off (0-100) times at the sacrafice to top end speed this is where a 5 speed comes in handy. Im currently gathering parts to built a borgwarner 3.36 LSD. You can get the borgwarner diff from an 85 VK or a VL, I think the VL has a 3.46:1 ratio and the VK a 3.36:1.
Be careful buying a Diff, station wagon diffs are wider than a sedan and cant easily be swapped. Disk brake rear ends are interchangable between diff models, the borgwarner diffs are stronger, and have bigger 27 splin axels. I think the axel code in 946. also the borgwarner diffs have different axels left to right one is shorter than the other.

I am aiming for my VK a T5 5speed with a Borgwarner 3.36:1 LSD. the Diff is coming 1st then when i have some more money a T5.

Performance really will stop when the money runs out.

cheers
Scott

[dellarb]

Hey, thanks for the info.

Intake wise ive ummed and ahed about new carbie or efi for a while new. Im very new to cars (only had licence since jan) and im not compltely comfy with switchin the intake system over. Is it that hard to do? Any common pitfalls? I imagine EFI is much more complicated then a new carb. Also the webber carby mentiond apparently needs an adaptor plate, how/where would i get one?

With regards to gearboxes and diffs, its an 85 model so it has that better diff thats been mentioned. Gearbox wise i'd love a 5spd but im not yet comfortable enough to really change one unless its a real simple bolt on job so that goes down the list (apparently the 5pds in vks were on the v8s and dont fit 202s).

Basically im not looking for a super car I just want a lil bit more performance out of what I've got coz the motor is in excelent nick and all. I prob seem to be asking questions that have been covered before but ive searched alot and cant find the real details i need. Money wise ive got a bit over 500 now with a fairly steady stream coming in but yeah gotta remember i havent got enough experience for serrious modifications like camshafts etc.

Sounds like new carb and replacing the dizzy is the go for now, my main q in that case is does anyone have a quick how-to guide, any tips on what can go wrong and what special equipment might be required.

One last unrelated thing. How hard is it to set up the instrument cluster with the tacho (got the vacume on atm n an gonna get one wit a tacho) a mate said just run a wire to the - of the coil, is it that easy?

[FastEHHolden]

The Varijet can support about 160 kw...if the carby is working leave it on there...get it tuned.

I would recommend extractors...but leave all the pollution gear on it and functioning....it doesn't slow you down or hurt performance but if its not there or working it will get you defected.

All up a new exhaust system will set you back around $600-700

If you have cash left over I recommend a new cam and lifters...cost about $150 plus fitting...unless you can do it your self.

[vkberlina]

A factory 5 speed conversion is pretty simple. you would need the following parts,

Gearbox (obviously)
shifter normally included with the box
bellhousing normally comes with the box as it holds the front bearings in.
possibly a tailshaft depending on the length of your being oyu have an 85 VK it _should bolt straight up.
Also you would need a few nuts & bolts

Parts you can reuse

Speedo cable bolts up fine with your current speedo gear
clutch assembly is the same
reuse your clutch fork etc.

If you swap your gearbox generally advisable to replace your gearbox mount, grease your spigot bush, also clutch depending on wear.

If you were going to get into serious performance you would need to consider 6 or V8 EFI or carbie. An EFI conversion would cover, injection gear about $300 then fitting it. Fuel return line, fuel pump, petty big job to convert

Dash cluster is pretty easy, buy a VK berlina or vacationer dash cluster with the tacho, remove your cluster install your speedo into the new cluster and fit to your car. Generally the tacho wires are all hooked up from factory even if you dont have one.
you cant use your cluster and plug in a tacho as it is missing parts for the tacho, you possibly could modify yours but I have bought tacho clusters for around the $40-50 mark before it wouldnt be worth the hassle.

With your budget you could consider a new exhaust, but just a thought, what engine cooling fan are you running?

cheers
scott

[dellarb]

The cooling fan is a very large engine driven one. The original radiator went ages ago apparently and my parents installed a heavy duty radiator with a very big fan. (which is prob good coz i read somewhere the black 202s pistons sometimes cracked if the engine was overheated 2 much). The car hasnt even got close to overheating even idling in traffic in the middle of summer so yeah.

[xstatic]

dude an exhaust and extractors are a must, if you are anything like me and can't throw around money just do simple mods like
exhaust, extractors, xe carb and shit like that.

if it is you first car keep it simple you need to learn how to drive first. like me i am doing the following mods
1. exhaust already put on
2. extractors
3. xe carb
4. new mags
5. dump it on it's ass
6. tint
7. kill switch, alarm, immobisliser (or however you spell it)

just my 5 cents worth

cheers

scott

[dellarb]

Ive got a quote for Pacemaker extractors installed for $440. Is that kinda about right? I initially thought it was alot but then after searching around found that the extractors alone cost mid to high 300s. Is extractors then exhaust a good way or should i get exhaust done first? While on the subject the same place quoted an extra $320 for a lukey 2.5" installed, is that to big for the six coz ive heard that 2.5 and above can kill of power coz of losing backpressure.

[vkberlina]

I have just finished building a carbie 202 5 speed I took it for its first run on Saturday. I can now state some costing figures & IMHO performance benefits

1 - Head Work

The only real performance enhancing mod I did to the engine was to heavily port the head, I kept the standard valves but port matched the intake, open the exhaust ports alot & port match to the stock headers.

performance wise it revs to 5500rpm quite easily and smooth, compared to my brothers carbie 202 which runs out of puff around the 4500rpm. It feels like the power band has opened up more.

Depending on your tools & mechanical knowledge it could be a pretty easy mods.

Cost would be 1-2 days work, VRS kit for your engine. cost around $200 doing everything your self, pretty easy stuff.

2- Exhaust somewhere between the 2-2 1/4" should suffice even if you kept the stock headers.Personally I dont think you will gain the benefit of extractors etc. about $600 for a complete system.

3- Simple mod If you are running a steel fan without a clutch either replace with an electric thermo or add a clutch or in the case of the 202 I just bulit run a smaller nylon fan. I removed a 7 blade steel fan from my EFI 202 and found noticable improvements in pickup and high RPM.
Cost
I bought the nylon fan for $15 at a wreakers
electric Thermo fan prolly around the $200 (i have found best improvement in HP of the 3 options)
clutch fan no idea on price.

4- due to the price and an easy mod an electronic dizzy, about the $50-60
I generally tune the dizzy by advancing timing till it pings then retard the timing a fraction till it stops pinging.

5- probably a carb from a XE falcon
To improve adjustment capabilities & performance I have been told putting this carb on helps a fair bit. Untill the varajet give me problems on this car im sticking witht he varajet.
I do have a slight flat spot down low with the car atm, I dont know if it is carbie, the head work,ignition or if its just the way it is. Im an EFI person normally

Actualy performance figures after mods

With the head porting, fan change on the engine I get about an extra 1000rpm in the power band, the car picks up revs quicker. I cant comment on fuel economy as I have only done about 20km in it.

cheers
Scott

[hellsube]

scott

are you running the water heated manifold for the weber?

Ive had issues with running non heated manifold (holley aftermarket) manifolds with webers on red sixes. they do need some heating to stop the mixture getting too cold.....

either that or your jettings out

[vkberlina]

The webber will be a project for later, I am building the car as a second car for me while I pull my EFI VK off the road for a few weeks to put an aftermarket computer in it.
When I finish my car a friend is buying the carbie VK from my then it will get the webber

I havent looked into putting the webber on fully yet, but soon

cheers
Scott

[dellarb]

Just a general thing with gearboxes, just trying to sort out where everything stands with the VKs. Most pages with VK specs say that it came with a 4spd and 5spd manual box. I had a chat with a mate a while ago who swore that there was no 5spd that would bolt on to the 202 and that the 5spd listed was for the v8s. I think he's right but somewhere i saw that the EFI 202s had 5spds and i serriously doubt they were diff blocks. Whats the deal?

[vkberlina]

I havent organised the webber yet, I have been told you can buy/make an adapter plater rather than replace the entire manifold.The engine has had a flat spot down low im investigating if its the carb or not first.

If it turns out to be the carbie I will go to a webber then.

I had a look at the carbie on the weekend, it had a partially clogged jet. I unblocked it retuned it and it seemed better, the car isnt drivable atm (no interior) I should be able to drive it in a week or two.

cheers
Scott

[I wish I was a Cab Driver]

Just a thought, if you were thinking of going ahead with the efi conversion, talk to that dave fella, apparently he had a few problems when it come to extractors and the like.

[CommodoreChick]

Just a general thing with gearboxes, just trying to sort out where everything stands with the VKs. Most pages with VK specs say that it came with a 4spd and 5spd manual box. I had a chat with a mate a while ago who swore that there was no 5spd that would bolt on to the 202 and that the 5spd listed was for the v8s. I think he's right but somewhere i saw that the EFI 202s had 5spds and i serriously doubt they were diff blocks. Whats the deal?

Dellarb:
I'm not exaclty sure what the deal is either, but i just thought I'd add that I just bought a VK and its a carbed 202 with a 5spd manual... and im 90% sure that its the gearbox that came with the car... I can ask the guy I bought it off if that helps clear things up

[gd81]

Carbie 3.3 6 VK commodores had a 5 speed option. Borgwarner M76
Also VH 2.8 6 had a 5 speed option. Borgwarner M75

Both have a rep of not being strong, particularly when you rally the car. Though my genuine VH 5 speed still hasn't broken with a 3.3 VK efi motor, at circuit sprints and many dirt events. Trust me I've given it some sh**.

[haloeight]

i have a vk 202 with 5spd

works fine

except the clutch is stuffed, thats about it
apparently the VH one is particularly bad, my mates vh 5spd had had the 5th gear replaced about 4 times

[Grunter]

Vk 5spds were meant to be slightly tougher than the vh ones.

My vk 5spd carby has pacemaker extractors onto 2 1/4 exhaust. The pacemakers had no allowance for egr so its all disconnected. Fit a vh 2.85L wide mouth aircleaner housing (seen one of these about a month ago on the ground at the wreckers) and try and get the cold air ducting with it aswell. I replaced my fixed engine fan with a clutch fan and pulled the belt off the air injection pump. Stick with the varajet, i would only change it to go for efi

This got 108rwhp on the dyno, which was 2rwhp short of what a stock vl auto got.

[5 spd 3.3 blue VB]

[QUOTE=dellarb] I had a chat with a mate a while ago who swore that there was no 5spd that would bolt on to the 202 and that the 5spd listed was for the v8s. he is wrong i have a m75 (vh 5 spd) bolted to my 3.3 blue (202) with no modifications

[Goon]

A conversion kit may have been used?