Black 202 Valve stem seals change - advice

[HoldenMad]

I have smoke on engine start only.
Looking to change the valve stem seals. Any advice on techniques would be appreciated. Any tricks things to look out for?

Also how much cost am I looking at and how easy is the job with the head still fitted to the engine in the car?

Will I need a stem seal cahnge kit?

I have never done this job before, but have the trade skills and understanding to be capable of doing the job myself. I also want to save $$, as one place quoted me upwards of $1200 to do the job

[atrail308]

its a lot easier to do the job with the head off...
the seals come in a packet of 12, only a few bucks from motor traders...
pull the head off and use a valve spring compressor to take out your collets and retainers from the tops of the valves, then simpply replace the seal and assemble the same way you pulled it apart...
a lot cheaper than you were quoted, so most of that is labour...
you just need to by a VRS kit, or valve stem seals, rocker cover gasket, manifold gasket and head gasket...
i hope this has helped a bit...

[308vkcalais]

Go getta fully recoed head set up 4 ULP/Gas.New Springs, Rockers, Guides & Valves etc.Set ya back around $500.Yep, pricey but ya get wat ya pay 4.You'll neva face the seats at the rite angles doing a backyard valve job + it will be a dead certainty your valve inserts would be hammered to buggery & therefore sh*thouse.I just payed for a fully recconed Black head.I haven't put it back on the block yet as I want ROLLERS...!!!

[HoldenMad]

if I went into motor traders or an auto shop, will they know what i'm talking about if I ask for a valve spring compressor?
I want to have the right tools for this job.

[A-TEAM AUTOMOTIVE]

how much better will a 202 run with the rollers ?

[atrail308]

yep, im sure they'll know what a vavle spring compressor is, if not, they shouldn't be working there... Also remember, you'll need a torque wrench for the head...

[synoptica]

I have a brand new set of seals that are yours if you like... won't even charge for postage, work will post for free

I did my seals not long ago with almost no knowledge of much at all... borrowed the spring compressor, bought a torque wrench from Bunnings, and a couple of wire brush attachments - did a valve regrind, removed all the carbon from the chambers and valves, put it all back together and it made only a slight difference to performance but economy was boosted.

It's a full weekend job - but you learn heaps doing it.

You'll need a VRS gasket set too - about $40 if you shop about (don't bother with Repco etc - go to your independent retailer).

Even buying ALL the tools you need, you can get this done for under $200.

[KBone]

If you do decide to change the valve seals yourself, I recommend you take the head off because the valve guides are very fiddely and if one drops into a cylinder you'll have to take the head off anyway to get it out. Dip the new seals in some oil so they slide on easy. While the head is off you should get a wire brush bit for a drill and clean off the carbon build up. You can also spray it with some engine enamel (pressure pack) for a bit of colour.

[HoldenMad]

I have a brand new set of seals that are yours if you like... won't even charge for postage, work will post for free

I did my seals not long ago with almost no knowledge of much at all... borrowed the spring compressor, bought a torque wrench from Bunnings, and a couple of wire brush attachments - did a valve regrind, removed all the carbon from the chambers and valves, put it all back together and it made only a slight difference to performance but economy was boosted.

It's a full weekend job - but you learn heaps doing it.

You'll need a VRS gasket set too - about $40 if you shop about (don't bother with Repco etc - go to your independent retailer).

Even buying ALL the tools you need, you can get this done for under $200.

PM sent

[DANNY8]

A few weeks after I bought my car (over 2 years ago now) I took it to my uncle and he showed me how to do it, without removing the head.

All u need is a set of valve stem seals, a rocker cover gasket, a special home made tool (see below), and someway of filling ur chamber with air.

My uncle had a peice on the end of his air hose that he screwed into the spark plug hole then filled it with air (this keeps the valve from dropping).

The special tool is a piece of flatbar (not heaps thin, a little thick coz it needs to push the valve spring down), then bend it 3/4 of the way across to a 45degree angle (approx). Then drill a hole in the bend in the steel. This is for ur valve stem to go through.

Here's a diagram:


Now here's wat ya do. Pull off ya rocker cover, remove rockers and pushrods. Then fill ur first cylinder with air. Now with the special took, you lever it on something and push it down...sry can't remember what it was levered on, I only saw it like 2 years ago and I didn't really take any notice lol. You push the long end down, and the short end should be against something (not sure wat), and the valve stem should be in the hole. Push down as hard as u can, then remove the 2 collets, then take ur old seal out and put the new one in, then the collets go back in, then carefully release the pressure on ur tool to bring the valve spring back up, then everything will go back into place. You then remove the gadget from the spark plug hole and move onto the next.

Me and my uncle both did it, I held the tool and pushed it down while my uncle did the rest, so having 2 people doing the job would be a must I'd say.

Overall, we had everything pulled down and back together in an hour or 2...wiith him teaching me stuff along the way.

[craigvk]

I saw a couple of pieces of hose the other day at Super cheap. They both had fittings for both spark plug hole types. Then you just connect your air compressor hose on the end and blow some air in to hold the valves in place. Obviously both valves need to be closed and if the valve is burnt, then you'll have it leaking air which is a problem.
The lever tool is on display in the GM factory manuals and others. It's basically a steel bar about an inch wide, 1/4 inch thick and probably about 3/4 foot long. The last third of the bar end is bent at about a 20 degree angle. About 6 inches on the angled end, there is approx a 1/4 inch slot in the centre of it.
You put a bolt though the slot and bolt it onto where the rocker arm pivot would sit, and lever the valve cap down. Remove the collets, cap, damper spring and spring and there is the lot removed. Replace what you need then.

[HoldenMad]

cheers dkerr and slim, The tool sounds like a good idea, but a bit of work to make one, will see what I can chase up with the machinists at work.

One of my work mates reckons he has raised the valves using small diameter rope fed into the spark plug hole to fill the cylinder and prevent falling valves. No air pressure required. He also said its a 2 person job to compress the springs to remove the collets.

I think I have it all sorted and planned out now. Will let you all know how it goes next weekend.

[DANNY8]

Yeah thx Slim , now I know all those little bits aswell and I can remember how to do it now. Cheers.

HoldenMan, I'd definetely give it a shot first with the head on, the worst u can do is drop a valve then u will have to take ur head off, but if u dont then u have saved a lot of time and hassles.

[Drewie]

cheers dkerr and slim, The tool sounds like a good idea, but a bit of work to make one, will see what I can chase up with the machinists at work.

One of my work mates reckons he has raised the valves using small diameter rope fed into the spark plug hole to fill the cylinder and prevent falling valves. No air pressure required. He also said its a 2 person job to compress the springs to remove the collets.

I think I have it all sorted and planned out now. Will let you all know how it goes next weekend.

Friend of mine did the rope trick and said it worked well, used a nice soft thin rope to fill the chamber then turned the motor over by hand to bring the piston fully to the top of the cylinder and the rope held the valve up while he changed the seals. I am thinking of doing the same on my daughters VC, that way not disturbing anything.

[vkhawkey]

take the spark plugs out and hold up the valve with a bent screw driver. i did it to 1 valve but decided to take the head off anyway. but can be done

[synoptica]

take the spark plugs out and hold up the valve with a bent screw driver. i did it to 1 valve but decided to take the head off anyway. but can be done

I'd be worried about accidentially scraping the bores doing that...

Friend of mine did the rope trick and said it worked well, used a nice soft thin rope to fill the chamber then turned the motor over by hand to bring the piston fully to the top of the cylinder and the rope held the valve up while he changed the seals. I am thinking of doing the same on my daughters VC, that way not disturbing anything.

This sounds like a much better idea

[Goon]

Would u get less emissions from doing this job ? if u know what im saying.. less carbon in the air

[SiLeNt-SoN]

im getting the same problem as "holden Mad" its not really a bother too me, but if fixing it can be easy and relitivly cheap, then i may have to get in on this idea lol

[HoldenMad]

yeah its a cheap job without taking the head off. Motor traders has the seal for just under $5 a set. I wasnt bothered until my Mrs complained that foks were gettin ticked off at her at the shopping centre carpark when they get smoked out
I figure the cops dont need any more reasons to look at my car. Its one less thing to grab their attention in an area where they target VB-VN commo's

[DANNY8]

Oneday when me and my bro were at dirt circuit racing here in Pirie, we were in the wagon which also needs valve stem seals. Around the barrier for the track is where people park, and I reversed up to a seat so we could sit in the back of the wagon and use the seat as a foot stall. Well l8r on in the day we went for a walk through the pits then we decided to drive around the other side of the track. When we got back to the car there was a few people sitting on the seat......when I started the wagon up it blew smoke all over them HAHAHAHA!!! Was funny as, especially the looks on their faces LOL!!