E Series Clubsport or Monaro

[John Williams]

Hi all,
This is my first post, and it's on behalf of my dad. Firstly, after over a decade or so of having Ford Lasers and dreaming about getting a Monaro, the day of a new car is coming very soon. I'm his 'helper', which basically means I'm all over Carsales AU looking for something that he could get. He's always loved Holdens and had a couple of 8-cylinder models pre 1990s, and really likes the 3rd gen Monaro. He has no idea about the different variants and model updates, but ideally we'd be looking at a VZ or V2 Series III (or late V2 Series II) CV8.

However, I've been attracted to the HSV Clubsport E Series R8 more recently, for a few reasons. Firstly, my sister is within a few years going to be over 6 ft, and I'm about 6 ft already, and my dad is 6ft 3. Whilst I understand the Monaro isn't a matchbox, having a sedan with 4 doors and greater rear head and leg room would probably be a benefit. Secondly, even though it is a classic, the third generation Monaro is old. It's based on a last gen Commodore platform which is already out of date by 5 years. The R8 has lots of new features and tech. Thirdly, safety is a priority. While the Monaro still has 4 airbags and a 4-star ANCAP rating, the VE Commodores have 5 star safety ratings and many have at least 6 airbags. And finally, while the current Clubsport on offer has had several tweaks, it basically is the same car as the original E Series R8.

Now, the major question, something I need help with purely because I can't answer (having never driven a Monaro or anything made by HSV). What is the driving experience like when you're in a VZ Monaro CV8 compared to a E Series Clubsport R8, in terms of handling, performance etc.? What would be the better purchase? I've thought about suggesting the SS V but it's very common and to most on the road, it's just a Commodore.

Thanks all for your help,
John

[cds]

Hi John,

Welcome to the forum, enjoy your stay here!

I've driven the R8 E Series 1 myself only once or twice which belonged to my work mate and I tell you they are a golden drive. The electronics and even transmission has advanced since the Cv8z Monaro days. The car feels incredibly larger and the in cabin tone is much more rich like. I also belive the R8 has other features such as ESP and heaps more sensors that can tell you stuff about the cars running preformance than the Cv8z Monaro.

If you take a Cv8z for a test drive, then take a E Series 1 R8 you will find the great difference and likely go for the R8. Price tag between the two are fairly different though I would think almost 15-20k in difference I think? Depends what your after, been wanting to finally get a piece of decent technology and drive chain I'd go for the R8 if the pocket is that deep, some R8 E1's going for under $42,0000. Just watch for the 2006 models and early 2007 models as there was a few recall issues. Check car history and service history etc.

Good Luck & I want to see pictures after purchase.

[TinSnips]

Two schools of thought spring to mind. Do you want the car as a driver's car or a collector's car? If you're after the driver's car, grab the clubby. If you're after the collector's get the munro. Not that the munro is a bad drive, it isn't. at all. It's better balanced than the commodores of that gen but doesn't stack up to the handling of the E series. At least not without some serious mods, which reduces the collectable nature of it.

[soop]

Monaro is by far the better investment.

[UFO]

^ as stated above.... 2 different cars for 2 different purposes.

If you plan to drive it daily, want better features, handling, safety (basically the lot).... the R8 is the way to go hands down.

For a collecter/investment, and having a car that could very well appreciate in value over the years (if low k's and in mint condition), the Monaro is the way to go.

If it was me though, there wouldnt be a decision to be made at all.... R8 all the way, every day, and twice on sunday .
You want a car you can drive, be safe and comfortable in, and have enough room without having to squat in it like a mini. I'm a little taller/larger as well.... and coupe is definitely what you DONT want if you plan on driving it on a regular basis. The shine of the monaro will fade very quickly- although it is a lovely car in its own right.

Test drive both to decide for yourself, but no way I'd go past the R8 (if they were my only two options- I'm a wagon fan ).

[fuzzy2308]

monaro would hold its value longer and will pull more chicks, but i like the clubby better.

[Ed]

Bank loan, get both... Monaro for your old man, r8 for you!


But seriously, go with the newer car if after comfort and safety.

[soop]

lol, massive difference in safty....

R8 would be like pissing your money up against the wall, and they're nothing special.

Monaro, is cool to look at. Might not make the same power as an R8 but is about 200kg lighter so will go just as fast and I doubt you'll notice any difference in handly or comfort.
Infact, I think the VY VZ's are more comfortable then the VE's.

[Lumps of cheese]

Another vote for monaro.

[DynoVE]

clubby.. cant go wrong

[WogBoyz]

I have to say go the clubby

[wikky]

Having driven both many times (stock to highly modified), my vote is for the Clubby. There's nothing special about the Monaro (to drive). The E series Clubby performs and handles much better. Get your old man to take both for a drive. That's the only way to decide between 2 cars.

[TinSnips]

lol, massive difference in safty....

R8 would be like pissing your money up against the wall, and they're nothing special.

Monaro, is cool to look at. Might not make the same power as an R8 but is about 200kg lighter so will go just as fast and I doubt you'll notice any difference in handly or comfort.
Infact, I think the VY VZ's are more comfortable then the VE's.

Have to disagree on the comfort comment. I find the VEs MUCH more comfortable than the Y/Z series cars. The munro is essentially just a 2 door commy, so mechanically it's nothing special. It's more the stigma attached to the name that is where the investment properties will come in. I don't think they'll ever appreciate as much as the old gen monaros but they WILL appreciate over the next couple of decades based on the badge alone.

Also, in spite of the weight saving, the 5.7 was notoriously average at low revs when stock, so for day to day driving the clubby will have plenty more kick, even though the actual numbers may not be that different.

Horses for courses as far as comfort goes, what fits me won't necessarily fit others but the E is definitely a better fit for me. As for handling though, the balance and accuracy of the steering alone in the Es is enough of an improvement to make it the better choice for a driver's car.

There's no wrong or right choice - as has been said, drive both and make an informed decision. But there's no way I'd be going past the clubby out of those two choices.

[soop]

Well the original Monaro was just a two door kingswood...

I hate VE seats. They're crap.

[kuzman89]

I'd have to say the clubby!! Don't own one, but the few ive been in feel really planted. Plus I'm biased, I think the VE is the sexiest commodore going around.

[soop]

LOL, VE's are fat and bulbous. Hate to see ya mrs if you reckon thats sexy!


(Disclaimer; The above is a joke and in no way is it meant to insinuate your mrs is a heffer.)

[kuzman89]

haha you funny bastard!!

[Jesterarts]

My vote would go to the monaro.

My reasons:

1. It's a future classic
2. It is a stunning car to look at, even the pre Z ones.
3. The VZ's are actually a bit better than a VE in a head on collisions. The reason the VE has the 5 stars is due to being a bit better with side on impacts and they have ESP.
4. I'm 6 foot 4 and I hit in my mates VZ monaro very comfortably
5. If your old man has been dreaming of a Monaro for years, he will be happier in a monaro.

The last point it really the big one I think. When you are buying your dream car, you don't care what's better on paper but rather what makes you feel like a 5yo again.

I'm planning on getting a new car this year, my options are say a VE SSV or a VZ R8. On paper, the VE is a better car as such being safer, a more advanced chassis and it's newer. But I want the older VZ just because that's the one that makes me feel like a 5yo again.

Hope that makes sense and helps!

[soop]

Couldn't agree more.

VY/VZ Is more a drivers car IMO.

Same as a Torana is more a drivers car then VZ.

[John Williams]

Thanks all for your responses and comments - a lot more than I expected and it looks like there's a great community here at Just Commodores.

Reading through these I see all of you put great detail into your responses.

(Sorry to bang on a bit :P) I myself have been interested in cars all my life. I'm actually a bit of a Beemer and Merc fan so I see why I was leaning more towards the Clubsport because it really is an Aussie M5 for under a third of the Beemer's price. Also, the whole 'daily driving issue' - this would be the regular runabout car for my dad, not a 'weekend car', so that also caused me to lean towards the Clubsport. I really love Holdens too. I just remember when we had a hire car on a Queensland holiday a year or two ago, a VE SV6, and I was just astounded at what a great car it was for its price-tag. Same basically goes for all of the locally-made Holdens. I think to myself when I see an S-Class Benz or a 7 Series BMW go past - why would you buy that when you can get a 3 Caprice Vs for the same price?

I think Jesterarts hit the nail on the head though with his 5th point. My dad had a couple of Torana V8s back when he was closer to my age and he's always admired the Monaro, even before the modern version debuted back in '01. I'm sure that I can make him try out a Clubsport R8 when he's shopping about for Monaros and if he loves that, fantastic. I'll give you a bit more background info: my dad was saying only a few years back during one of my rants on about how good German cars are that a "car is to get you from A to B", so you can see it takes something quite special to make him excited. I doubt he'd even know what a Clubsport is :P!!

With the Monaro (3rd gen), what are the best models to look out for and what should we be cautious of when looking at them? It's difficult to find one in SA as most Monaros for sale at dealerships are based interstate, and I know you can transport it over, but for such a big purchase, my dad'd like to see what you're laying down $30,000-$45,000 on. The remainder are really just private sellers, and my dad doesn't want to go through them :S Is it worth holding out for another 12 months to see if some late model VZs get reduced in price, or does it not really matter when he gets it (within the next 18 months).

Once again, thanks for the overwhelming response! I'll be sure to put pics up when my dad (finally) gets something!!

[soop]

You can get a CV8 monaro for under $30k these days, and a CV8Z for under $40k. They don't really have any issues a regular commodore doesn't have.

[Banicks]

Interesting read, as my thoughts are running the same question through my mind. I was looking at my first manual V8 soon, so Monaro .v. SSVE has been popping into my mind quite a bit.

Obviously the price difference between them all, depends on year model. I still have a lot of thinking to do, leaning towards a CV8Z Monaro. Even with using it as a daily drive I still keep my cars immaculate as humanly possible. Whilst it wouldn't retain the higher end bracket of the appreciation value (they're only going up at the moment), it would still appreciate to those who don’t earn a 6 figure salary.

That said, I love the features and creature comforts that I could get in the a MY09 or MY10 SSV for the same price. But without a doubt there is no collectability. In addition, unless I can hear the unleashed growl of the V8 through stock pipes of either, the exhaust will be getting upgraded – but if I keep the stock exhaust at the end of the day, and re-install when/if I sell the Munz, who’s to know? :P Decisions decisions!

[andyperth]

I love my cv8z to bits . It sounds great is fun to drive looks cool and its a MONARO its got the badge. You can do your license in it quick smart if your not careful.

[aaronevolution]

I love my cv8z to bits . It sounds great is fun to drive looks cool and its a MONARO its got the badge. You can do your license in it quick smart if your not careful.

You must have a big shovel.

[pjdm1980]

The only Monaro's (Body shape) I would touch would be the HSV Coupe 4 and the GTS Coupe but as they are past your fathers budget I'd go the R8, I've driven both and the E series does handle better and has HSV seats are very comfortable and total different compared to standard Holden VE seats. Yes the E series are pretty common but that doesn't mean they are not a good looking car by any means.
Good luck with your search.