Donating Member
Cut & Polish before sealing?
Hey all,
I'm going to give it a go at getting my car to look a bit better tomorrow afternoon.
I have bought:
proper pH neutral car shampoo
microfiber washing mitt
microfiber chamois
bunch of random microfiber cloths
Soft rim brush
Dodo Juice grey clay bar and magic lube
Duragloss all wheel cleaner
Duragloss Paint protection pack - Fast Clean and Shine (including Mint Microfibre Cloth General Purpose, a Mint Premium Microfibre Cloth and 2 x Foam Applicator Pads, 601 Polish Bonding Agent, 105 Total Performance Polish, Duragloss Fast Clean & Shine)
Now the only thing I am unsure about is the paint has slight swirling from being sponge washed in the past (previous owner).
I have Kitten Cut and Polish #2 and was wanting to know if this would be suitable to remove slight swirling before sealing the paint? I have a generic RO polisher, would this do to remove the slight swirling? I'm not after a full detailed finish.. Because i'm not a detailer and wouldn't be able to get that result anyway, just trying to get it looking better than it is at the moment.
Thanks
Polish all the things...
I think you will find using cut and polish will add more swirls . Meguiars swirl remover should do the trick !
In a similar situation, using the same gear as you, I also used Duragloss 652 pre-cleaner No2 after the clay bar. This removed any swirl marks and a few light scratches, and left a baby bum smooth surface for the rest of the process.
Give 2 coats of the 105 with 12 hours between coats. Use Fast Clean and Shine after every wash. It may look like it does not need it but believe me it does add that extra shine and protection.
10 months since I did mine and it still gleams after each wash.
I now only use GTechnique products on my cars, a bit more expensive than most of the others but well worth it.
F O R U M W A R R I O R
Everyone comments on how stupidly shiny my car is.
Every time I wash it i use the mothers wool mitt then dry with mothers weave chamois then go over the whole car with mothers quick detailer and microfibre towels, one section of towel for each panel then flip to buff.
Every 6 months I do the following.
Polish car with meguires scratch X remover
Polish car with mothers polish
Seal with mothers wax
You will be sore afterwards.
Silver Certified.
I thought they had a clear coat over the paint? Cut & polish will totally stuff your paint.Originally Posted by RiCeY
AKA Luke!
*Sigh ...*
No it won't. Comments like that mislead people.
Tinny ... Would you like to do the honors or shall I
Huh? lol sorry thats a fail... bad technique will stuff your paint, not cut and polish.
Polish all the things...
fixed
Clear is essentially non-pigmented paint (of varying composites and hardness, depending on the paint manufacturer), so it's perfectly safe to use abrasive compounds and polishes on - when done correctly. Products like Scratch X, SRP, and a lot of other over the counter swirl 'removers' actually contain more fillers than anything else - so won't actually remove swirls, but fill them instead (scratch X and SRP, among others, do actually contain ultra fine abrasives, though nothing that will significantly remove anything - they ultimately rely on their filling ability). Some do a very good job, some don't - none are permanent solutions. They certainly have their place - but the only way to remove swirls, scratches, spiderwebs and the like is through effective machine polishing with abrasive products and pads, appropriate for the task at hand.
If you're just looking to hide the odd swirl and get the paint nice and shiny, then a filler product is great, easy to use by hand and basically fool proof - just don't expect them to last forever - they will wash out.
lol at both of you. Clearly no idea.
F O R U M W A R R I O R
Where did I say I used cutting compound? I said normal polish and scratch X both of which are barely abrasive.
Silver Certified.
Sorry, maybe i should have said"won't cut & polish stuff your paint?"
but fair enough, I do not have the facts
There are no stupid questions, just stupid answers..........
Some people know a lot about everything, but stuff all about anything in particular.
But I guess its better to be labelled an Idiot, than to open your mouth & prove it...
Polish all the things...
It's a really common misconception - and if the person using the abrasives doesn't know what they're doing, it most certainly WILL stuff your paint. Nothing stupid about asking a question like that.
Especially with clear, all you are doing is taking the top off the paint with cutting compound, and filling what tiny scratches the cut is making with the polish at the same time. Do it right and you will have a flawless finish. Do it wrong and you wont. Even a single grain of sand on your polishing cloth will make more scratches than you are trying to get rid of for instance.
I saw some idiot posting the other day regarding sanding, and insisting you only rub in straight lines, never circles, or you will create scratches. I think he needs to put the woodwork book down, there is no grain to follow in paint... small tight circles and gentle compound is the go.
Remember there is a difference between 'cutting compound' and 'cut and polish' too.
'Cutting compound' is just liquid sandpaper, it will scratch. Its a preparation tool, not a finishing tool.
'Cut and polish' is a combination, uses a less agressive cutting medium, and in theory fills its own scratches with the inbuilt polish. Use a dirty cloth, or bad polishing technique, and you will still get scratches though.
'Polish' has no cutting properties, and simply fills the scratches and adds a shiny layer over the paint. It has limited filling properties too though, and wont hide a lot of scratches.
I rub back paint with wet 2000 grit (though I have often gotten away with 1200 grit ), then buff it with a mild 'cut and polish', then buff it again with a good quality wax.
I'm hoping snips agrees with me here, because he is a pro and I know nothing
That sounds like a sales spool from the aftermarket chick trying to flog someone paint protection and telling them that polishing the paint ruins it so they need paint protection instead.
I opted for 'paint protection' for the new Kia I bought a couple weeks ago. Just on the basis that they actually maintain the paint for you as part of the deal. They advise never to attempt to polish it, they will void the paint warranty if its washed with anything but soapy water. Presumably polishing it will harm the protective coating. I can see how cutting compound or even cut and polish would harm it but no polish sounds like hogwash to me. However they are prepared to fix any ( non accident ) paint damage for the duration of the 5 year warranty if I stick to their rules so no worries, I obeyThat sounds like a sales spool from the aftermarket chick trying to flog someone paint protection and telling them that polishing the paint ruins it so they need paint protection instead.
Polish all the things...
There are abrasive polishes and non abrasive polishes. The term 'polish' is widely misused. In ideal conditions, there's no need to 'fill' anything. The finish is refined to a point beyond the point of even being fill-able. The idea is to actually remove any polishing oils after machining, that can fill as well, to make sure there is nothing left to be filled - ie, leaving clean, perfectly refined paint. There are guys who have been in the game much longer than I have who will be able to word that better (^^^ Like Scott.. Hi Scott) - but hopefully that makes sense.
To use the sand paper analogy, there are different grades of sand paper, in the same way that there are different grades of polish. Aggressive compounds and pads remove scratches but will often leave hazing and holograms - so you refine with finer grades of polish and pads, until the finish is crystal.
Any polish with the slightest abrasion will remove their paint protection unless its something like "Opti-Coat" or "cQaurtz" which can be polished with a very slight abrasion without removing it and cannot be removed with even heavy chemical cleaners.Just on the basis that they actually maintain the paint for you as part of the deal. They advise never to attempt to polish it, they will void the paint warranty if its washed with anything but soapy water. Presumably polishing it will harm the protective coating. I can see how cutting compound or even cut and polish would harm it but no polish sounds like hogwash to me. However they are prepared to fix any ( non accident ) paint damage for the duration of the 5 year warranty if I stick to their rules so no worries, I obey
Unfortunetly most of these paint protections from dealerships are nothing more then a synthetic wax (polymer, ptfe etc) and can be removed with chemical cleaners thats why they say it can only be washed with a gentle car wash otherwise you will void the warranty, most even specify that you must use their products to maintain it. Theres one particular product that contains Titanium Dioxide that is sold through dealerships Australia Wide and they market it saying that it contains Titanium Dioxide Ti02 so its "self cleaning and breaks down dirt", thing is Ti02 is just a pigment that is a UV Reflector thats used in sunscreen, doesnt really have anything to do with durability or self cleaning. Last time i checked my sunscreen didnt perform self cleaning on me.
So the whole paint protection package is only worth whatever the written warranty terms are as the products are quiet average, I love when people tell me a dealership has told them their paint protection package includes repair of damage, because how far does this damage extend too? whats exactly covered and if the car is absolutely covered in bird poo etching and needs a full respray are they going to pay for it? I doubt it, what comes with paint protection is a "Warranty" not "Insurance", the "Warranty" only extends as far as the product they are selling, same as everything you buy that comes with a warranty, its not insurance.
It was only today i had a client tell me the dealership told them their leather protection covers the seats for a lifetime, so if they start to wear even in 10yrs time they will replace them. Luckily the client was smart enough to know a "liquid" protection product on a flexible porous surface will not protect against wear and also wont last a lifetime and "will" need to be reapplied regularly, (they also told him its a once off application and needs no reapplication within a lifetime). Unless its written in writing their verbal sales pitch means nothing and im yet to see one that has in writing they will repair affected paint work or replace interior parts if they are worn, even if they did they would argue that you did something that voided the warranty, it was out of their control or the protection was no longer present!
I hope for your sake they are inspecting it annually to ensure the protection is still present for your benefit, however from your post above you sound smart enough to know if the protection is gone or not.
Sorry to hijack the thread!
Yeah mate thanks.. totally aware of the limitations of the warranty.Any polish with the slightest abrasion will remove their paint protection unless its something like "Opti-Coat" or "cQaurtz" which can be polished with a very slight abrasion without removing it and cannot be removed with even heavy chemical cleaners.
Unfortunetly most of these paint protections from dealerships are nothing more then a synthetic wax (polymer, ptfe etc) and can be removed with chemical cleaners thats why they say it can only be washed with a gentle car wash otherwise you will void the warranty, most even specify that you must use their products to maintain it. Theres one particular product that contains Titanium Dioxide that is sold through dealerships Australia Wide and they market it saying that it contains Titanium Dioxide Ti02 so its "self cleaning and breaks down dirt", thing is Ti02 is just a pigment that is a UV Reflector thats used in sunscreen, doesnt really have anything to do with durability or self cleaning. Last time i checked my sunscreen didnt perform self cleaning on me.
So the whole paint protection package is only worth whatever the written warranty terms are as the products are quiet average, I love when people tell me a dealership has told them their paint protection package includes repair of damage, because how far does this damage extend too? whats exactly covered and if the car is absolutely covered in bird poo etching and needs a full respray are they going to pay for it? I doubt it, what comes with paint protection is a "Warranty" not "Insurance", the "Warranty" only extends as far as the product they are selling, same as everything you buy that comes with a warranty, its not insurance.
It was only today i had a client tell me the dealership told them their leather protection covers the seats for a lifetime, so if they start to wear even in 10yrs time they will replace them. Luckily the client was smart enough to know a "liquid" protection product on a flexible porous surface will not protect against wear and also wont last a lifetime and "will" need to be reapplied regularly, (they also told him its a once off application and needs no reapplication within a lifetime). Unless its written in writing their verbal sales pitch means nothing and im yet to see one that has in writing they will repair affected paint work or replace interior parts if they are worn, even if they did they would argue that you did something that voided the warranty, it was out of their control or the protection was no longer present!
I hope for your sake they are inspecting it annually to ensure the protection is still present for your benefit, however from your post above you sound smart enough to know if the protection is gone or not.
Sorry to hijack the thread!
Of course it doesnt cover accidents, chemical spills etc. They do touchups on chips though, its a requirement that I bring it in annually for inspection, repairs and a reapplication of the product (no further charges).
The warranty is mostly useful if the paint starts fading, crazing or peeling of course, but since they say they will also touch up stone chips and suchlike, it seemed worth doing. I've had a few Kias, and found them to be excellent in terms of service and honouring warranty claims.
It came as a package with rust protection anyway, and I wanted one so I kinda had to have the other anyway lol.. 900 bucks for rust protection, extra sound deadening and paint protection. No idea why it should need extra rust protection lol.. dont they come with it normally?but the sound deadening alone is worth the money, makes a major difference.
Also sorry for the off topic discussion guys..
You have worded everything better then i would have.
You would probably put them in these categories:
Cutting Compound
Abrasive Polish
Finishing Polish (Abrasive) and also (Non Abrasive)
All in One > Basically a Finishing Polish and Wax in one, most of these also contain fillers.
Wether its a Cutting Compound or an All in One Polish they are all classed as "Polishes" as they refine the paint work which is what the term "Polish" means, the word "Cut n Polish" refers to no particular type of product, its just an old term that refers to cutting the paint work then polishing it.
Most polishes contain abrasives, it just depends how abrasive they are as to what category they fall into.
I could ramble on but its getting late. LOL
As long as they are doing an annual inspection then it should be fine, its the ones that give you a lifetime warranty, and tell you that you dont need a reapplication or inspection that you have to run from. 99% of customers arent going to know when the protection wears off and needs reapplying.
With rust, or rust protection? LOL J/K. Not sure about Kia's but i know prestige cars roll through several electromagnetic tanks to charge the metal then through a zinc tank so it magnatically sticks and gets into places where primer cannot be sprayed to prevent rust etc.No idea why it should need extra rust protection lol.. dont they come with it normally?
Always wondered why I should have to pay for 'additional' rust protection. As you say, they are treated before any paint even goes on them. You would kinda like to be able to assume it wasnt going to rust anyway.
I did it for the sound deadening, I have never seen the slightest trace of rust on any of my Kias, but they are definitely quieter with the sound deadening.
Donating Member
Thought I would give it a go tonight as what I thought were 'swirls' are so small only I seemed to notice them..(on roof).
Washed car, clay barred, used a polish (was meguires or mothers, can't remember, to fill the small swirls as a temp fix), used the paint prep and then the sealant polish.
I was surprised by how much crap the clay bar actually removed.. Was a pleasant surprise. The back of the boot was the worst by far.
Took me from 9:30pm - 12:30am to do everything but the wash, and it looks great now.. Can't wait to see it in sunlight and not from heaps of fluros lol.
Thanks for everyone's input
I used to have a metallic brown type 3 VW station wagon, the guy that built the car flared the guards(fyber-glass) and they just flowed with the rest of the body, had 255's on the back, 225's on the front. was the best looking type 3 station wagon I have seen. Shine on the paint like looking at a glass full of metallic brown coke, I was only sixteen, 1st year apprentice electrician, had some cash, loved my car, bought cut & polish, used to spend every saturday cleaning & loving, no more nice paint job, cut it all away!!!!!!
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