Grinding under load?

[schwanm]

Hi all,

I bought a used 2009 VE MY10 SV6 almost three months ago, and since i've had it it's made a grinding noise when accelerating with the steering wheel turned

I first took it to a holden dealer who told me it was the front right wheel bearing, they replaced it under warranty and told me it would all be good, drove it away and it still made the grinding sound. When I took it back they said there was nothing wrong and all was normal.

I then took it to my local mechanic who agreed there was a grinding sound, but said it was not a wheel bearing sound and thought it was something to do with the drivetrain/gearbox, but he couldn't find any faults.

Took it to a different holden dealer who thought it was a loose heat shield on the exhaust, they tightened it up and it's still making the noise.

It's most predominant when the car is first turned out of the driveway in the morning, after that it's most noticable when accelerating away from a round about.

Anyone got any ideas what to do next?

[VT_SS]

Well if it was me i would keep on taking it back to holden until this issue was fixed.But yeh i can see your getting the usual holden dealership customer severce.Just keep on em about the problem there's got to be one of them willing to help get this fixed for you.

[UFO]

Hi all,

I bought a used 2009 VE MY10 SV6 almost three months ago, and since i've had it it's made a grinding noise when accelerating with the steering wheel turned

I first took it to a holden dealer who told me it was the front right wheel bearing, they replaced it under warranty and told me it would all be good, drove it away and it still made the grinding sound. When I took it back they said there was nothing wrong and all was normal.

I then took it to my local mechanic who agreed there was a grinding sound, but said it was not a wheel bearing sound and thought it was something to do with the drivetrain/gearbox, but he couldn't find any faults.

Took it to a different holden dealer who thought it was a loose heat shield on the exhaust, they tightened it up and it's still making the noise.

It's most predominant when the car is first turned out of the driveway in the morning, after that it's most noticable when accelerating away from a round about.

Anyone got any ideas what to do next?

Great first post, clear and concise with your problem.... without a super big whinge story to have to sift through.
Welcome to JC btw .

A little more info if you dont mind though, and lets see if we can narrow this down a bit.
You say it happens when you pull out of driveway, and accelerating from a roundabout?

Firstly, where does the noise sound like its coming from? Under you, from the engine bay, behind you?
Is it low pitched or high?
Is there any associated feedback/vibration from other parts in the car when you hear the noise? (ie steering wheel, gear shift lever, any of the pedals)
Is the car auto or manual? Does it only happen in one particular gear, or all gears?
Does it seem to happen when engine is at particular revs, or is it more gear selection related? For instance, if you revved the engine higher through the roundabout by selecting a different gear, does the noise still happen? Does it change in pitch?
If car is auto, does placing it in a single gear before going through the roundabout (like in sports mode) still give the same sound?
Does the noise happen at any other time, or only at low speeds negotiating roundabouts?
If you take the car to a vacant car park, and do gentle figure 8's (no burnouts ), can you replicate the noise? In what part of the "8" does the noise happen? Does it only happen turning in one direction or both?
You mentioned that it happens accelerating away from a roundabout.... can you replicate the noise by accelerating without turning first?

Sorry for all the questions, but if you can answer some of them (or all of them), you can eliminate different components.
For instance, wheel bearing fault can be easily found by loading up the relevant wheel on a corner... and conversely will go quieter when you turn in the opposite direction.

[UFO]

Also, keep receipts and documentation regarding the issue (and it still not being fixed when presenting at a dealer for warranty service).
A little diary with names, places, dates, rough conversation outcomes etc. will come in handy later on if warranty expires and problem still exists (and they refuse to fix it).
Letting warranty expire without this getting fixed could be very costly later mate. Better to be anal now than being taken advantage of anally later.

[schwanm]

Firstly, where does the noise sound like its coming from? Under you, from the engine bay, behind you?
It sounds quite central to me, from the drivers seat but some have said it sounds like the left side? Definately forward of the dashboard though

Is it low pitched or high?
Mid pitched, metal on metal kind of sound, bit like sharpening a knife?

Is there any associated feedback/vibration from other parts in the car when you hear the noise? (ie steering wheel, gear shift lever, any of the pedals)
Not that I've noticed, just an irritating sound

Is the car auto or manual? Does it only happen in one particular gear, or all gears?
It's an auto, It still did it accelerating away when i had it in 2nd/3rd gear accelerating out of round abouts

Does it seem to happen when engine is at particular revs, or is it more gear selection related? For instance, if you revved the engine higher through the roundabout by selecting a different gear, does the noise still happen? Does it change in pitch?
Seems around 1500rpm-2500rpm, above that it starts to fade in to the engine noise and you can't hear it, it's always the same pitch, like its the same metal parts scraping together sort of noise

If car is auto, does placing it in a single gear before going through the roundabout (like in sports mode) still give the same sound?
Did it in both 2nd and 3rd

Does the noise happen at any other time, or only at low speeds negotiating roundabouts?
It happens when I pull away from a carpark or something, reverse out and no noise, but turn the wheel and accelerate away and it does it, does it around corners when it hits the right sort of turn/speed combination. It makes the same kind of noise when the car is cold and it revs a bit higher when its cold, but after the inital 10-15sec when it calms back down to 500-600rpm it goes away.


If you take the car to a vacant car park, and do gentle figure 8's (no burnouts ), can you replicate the noise? In what part of the "8" does the noise happen? Does it only happen turning in one direction or both?
I've had it doing it both ways, but not consistently, it only consistently does it when turning right. It'll do it on the end of the curve, straightening out but only when you apply accelerator. If I just let it coast out of the turn it wont make the sound

You mentioned that it happens accelerating away from a roundabout.... can you replicate the noise by accelerating without turning first?
Occasionally, but it's not as noticable. It did it when I had it parked on the street the other day, I turned it on and accelerated straight ahead from the park.

thanks very much for the help, really appreciate it! I'm not getting far with the holden dealers and it's mighty frustrating

[Rhin0o8]

From reading the above symptoms, I would suggest looking at the strut top mounts and/or bearing plate. you may have some dirt/grit in there or the rubber has collapsed.

[VT_SS]

Yep while its under warranty keep hounding holden to fix this problem all be it very frustrating but its better they spend there time and money on it.Takes the cash flow problem off you as well, one less thing to worry about hope it gets fixed for ya soon.

[schwanm]

From reading the above symptoms, I would suggest looking at the strut top mounts and/or bearing plate. you may have some dirt/grit in there or the rubber has collapsed.

Is this something I can look at and/or check or will it involve a mechanic pulling stuff apart?

Thanks

[stirringaxe]

One thing springs to mind also. Don't know how many kms its done, but my VT had similar symptoms turned out to be buggered engine mounts allowing Power Steering pipes to hit the sub-frame on tight turns etc. Just a thought.

[schwanm]

It's just ticked over 60k

[mint]

Make sure they check all around the brakes also make sure there's no dents on any engine covers/cowls or anything worked loose in the area.

[Supe]

I had a VX SS once that would make a metal on metal scraping sound under some of the same scenarios you have and mine turned out to be a diff problem. I didn't fix it though, I ended up selling it so I can't say for sure sorry.

[UFO]

Thanks for answering as much of them as possible mate.

Righto.... so lets have a closer look here:

metal on metal, no real feedback on other items in cabin, gear changes doesnt affect it, its always a similar pitch regardless of revs, will occur only under acceleration and not coasting, and only during or just out of a turn.

Going by the above, I'd say drivetrain issue after gearbox.
I doubt its gearbox itself because gear selection doesnt change noise, the direction the car is travelling in wouldnt affect it, and you havent mentioned any other issues like the car not changing when it should... so diff is the first place I'd check.
Because it only happens during acceleration and more often than not car is turning or has just finished turning, and you arent getting feedback in cabin (which could otherwise suggest gearbox problem), diff or something 'back there' is 1st bet. Cold starts after car has been sitting a while also affects it, so lubrication (a lack of) could also be an issue.... but once the part gets a little lube (because its not completely dry) it stops making noise for a little while until it's pushed harder.

Only thing is but then you said you reckon its definitely forward of dashboard... which makes me question rear wheel problem.

It's not related to revs, and its related to drivetrain under load... so my process of elimination would start at the rear of the car and work forwards.
The fact they picked a front wheel bearing to change first doesnt sound right.

Maybe get someone to sit in back seat and do tests again?
They might be able to feel/hear something different to you being seated up front.

Also, try and get a look under the car if you can.
Look down the driveshaft to the diff, then out to both rear wheels.
Look for spots that appear dirtier than the rest... like leaking lube sitting there for a while would look after driving on dirt road.
The whole backend is technically a sealed unit.... shouldnt be any messy spots as I've described.

(edited: sorry, just reread first post.... you already took to mechanic who couldnt see any issues. ignore last bit I typed).

I still reckon diff most likely issue. Get Holden to start there. Front wheel bearing? Idiots.

[schwanm]

Thanks for the very informative responses, im taking it back in tomorrow for the sixth time.. I'll ask them to look at the diff. After your explanation it sounds like you're on to it, hopefully have this resolved tomorrow!

[carcollector]

Might be the front sway bar loading up on something to cause the noise. When you turnand/or accelerate, the sway bar flexes, and it may be touching something when it flexes, causing the noise. It may also be loose on one side mount, which isn't apparent until it is loaded up. Check the sway bar mounts for looseness or wear and tear, or whether any part of the sway bar is touching something it shouldn't. Also try taking of the lower plastic splash pan and taking it for a drive to see if the noise disappears.

Good luck.

[UFO]

Might be the front sway bar loading up on something to cause the noise. When you turnand/or accelerate, the sway bar flexes, and it may be touching something when it flexes, causing the noise. It may also be loose on one side mount, which isn't apparent until it is loaded up. Check the sway bar mounts for looseness or wear and tear, or whether any part of the sway bar is touching something it shouldn't. Also try taking of the lower plastic splash pan and taking it for a drive to see if the noise disappears.

Good luck.

Good suggestions carcollector, but he cant get the noise to occur without acceleration. Loading up the front end by cornering with and without brakes would definitely be enough to get the suspension geometry moving enough to replicate the noise. Also noise is described as "metal on metal" and "kind of sharpening a knife"... which to me at least points to a moving part. Typically a suspension component will make a clicking or banging noise when somethings not right.

But you have got me thinking from another angle.... OP, when car is up on jacks or hoist have a look for metal parts that appear worn or scratched like they are rubbing up against something else metal. I still think it's drivetrain related, but carcollectors post got me thinking that it could be a moving part fouling on a part of the body it shouldnt be- but only if car is turning. It still doesnt explain how it'll only happen during acceleration, though.... puzzling.

Keep us posted, very curious.

[greenacc]

Acceleration loads up the rear axles and suspension, so that could be the place to look.
Its not a rear wheel bearing is it ? They make a scratchy sound when they are cactus, particularly under load.

[schwanm]

No luck in fixing it today. Had the top mechanic come for a drive, he heard the noise and said it was not something he had heard before or had any complaints about.

" checked all suspension and driveline components, all ok
Checked engine mounts, suspension bushes, brakes and wheel bearings"

Then they explained theres nothing further they will do because there isnt any faulty part (yet). Until something breaks they wont do anything...

Seriously considering just getting rid of it :/

[greenacc]

Hahaha, i love holdens philosophy. Yeah, there's something wrong with your car pal but we don't know what it is so we aint going to try to fix it.
Best thing to do in that case is just keep driving it. Consider that noise to be your friend. Encourage it to make as much noise as possible as often as possible until it gets really loud and makes that noise all the time. Accelerate hard out of corners etc. Then just take it back to holden and say "see, i told you there was something wrong ... " Maybe it needs a new diff centre.

[schwanm]

Have it booked in at a mechanic this Saturday, I just want it fixed

It has to be a part that moves when the engine is running but the car is stationary, but would be under load when accelerating

[UFO]

Then they explained theres nothing further they will do because there isnt any faulty part (yet). Until something breaks they wont do anything...

Pricks, but all they are doing is following protocol. Plus, in your warranty docs I'm prety sure I read somewhere that any annoying noises and rattles and the like arent actually covered specifically. It's up to the dealers discretion when deciding on whether to fix it or not. The warranty is a functional warranty.... if it's working, its 'fine'.
Customer service wise is sucks dogs balls though.
Maybe go with GreenAcc's advice.... see if you can break it, and therefore force the replacement (under normal driving conditions of course ).
Get the other mechanic to see if he can give you more of an idea on what the problem is.... but I wouldnt be spending any money getting it fixed mate. The same reason Holden wont touch it is the same reason you shouldnt. You could spend thousands and the problem still wont be fixed.

Sell it or break it.

[schwanm]

You sound just like the dealer haha you're right though.. If I can figure out what it is, then I can figure out how to break it..

[rambunctious]

What part of Brisbane do you live. North South East West

[schwanm]

I'm on the north side

[rambunctious]

I'm on the north side

I live near Aspley so if you want , I am happy to have a listen and see if I can point you in the right direction.
Sometimes it just needs someone with a bit of common sense to look outside the square and find these problems.
PM me if you want. I am at Mooloolaba to Tuesday then back home.