6 Litre rattler/piston slapper !

[Charger1]

Hi guys- have a 2010 VE SS UTE 6 spd manual- This engine was quiet in the top end when delivered- but after first oil change which was done earlier than specified ( 5000km with 5-30w Mobil one ) have had lifter noise from here on in- also has had a quite noticeable piston rattle when cold and almost to the point I can still notice it when at full operating temperature- has had cam and lifters replaced under warranty and even a second set of lifters fitted......Engineers from Holden have listened to both noises and have communicated through the service manager ( because they are to arrogant to speak to the customer ) that both noises are of acceptable levels and it can happen with a mass produced product- well thats fine but just give me another engine GM and I will go away- If any Holden engineers are reading this- ur product is a fragile- under engineered- rattly POS ! Ok now I have vented would love to hear of other peoples experiences with their engines and warranty claims.

Regards,
Charger

[aaronevolution]

There is another massive thread on here where people have had the same problem. I think a couple of guys have been through 2 or 3 new engines and it's still there.

[Charger1]

oh really- seems like a can of worms is already open....thankyou Aaronevolution- I will see if I can find it !

[Diesel_junkie]

Yep yep my series 2 knocks when it's cold it's not as bad as a gen 3 but its there. Doesn't use oil though to be honest these Chev alloys are buckets of crap when you think of the problems Holden's had with them.. And you would think that after the massive headaches with the gen 3 they would of made sure that these engines are sweet. Holden told me they couldn't hear the noise BULL SH*T they just don't want to pull an engine out. Reasons why I gave up.

1) it doesn't use oil and isn't that bad
2) imagine waiting for Holden to put an engine in and out of my car... No thanks.

[Diesel_junkie]

By the way I have NO lifter noise (well nothing that's not normal) but it knocks just like a 5.7 piece of ****

[HEXEM]

Mate,

Welcome to the headaches OldDog, SSVagon, Cruizer, myself (I'm on engine number 4) and some others have been fighting with Holden over getting this issue sorted to an acceptable level. There are some good tips for you to follow in getting this resolved. Also we have videos posted for people to compare noises with theirs.

AFM L76 lifter rattle when cold WTF?

Interesting that your vehicle is a series2. From some research we have done suggests that the earlier VE Series 2's fitted with L77 engines built in 2010 (you can find out what the build date of the engine is on the passenger side rocker cover (inside) at the front of the engine. Sits just under the injector wiring harness). Would be interested to know what that date is.

Feel free to contact me to discuss further if you want. More than happy to share my experiances.

Cheers,
Phil

[Charger1]

Thanks Diesel Junkie- I had very good luck with my previous VY 5.7- must have been one of the lucky ones. I too thought that I would be getting a more refined motor with the 6.0 litre- instead I get a knarly- rattly POS that it seems GM cannot or will not fix. I can bring the piston noise on in neautral by feathering the throttle between 2500 and 3000......loading and unloading- slap slap slappetty slap- drives me insane !!!!! I sat with the service manager and the GM district service manager yesterday and asked them where do we go from here ? both were at a loss to give me any direction with it- the DSM is an absolute tool- kept refering to the problems they had with the 5.8- WTF I said you mean the 5.7 ? A spineless tool that doesn't belong in the workshop is our DSM ! And to the elitist GM engineer with multiple degrees in lies and deception- who listened to my engine- its not an acceptable level of small end noise- its an unacceptable level of piston slap you arrogant elitist GM pig ! Next stop- small claims- VCAT and who ever else will listen. Sorry guys Im just so angry !

[Diesel_junkie]

Mate so am I!!! Bloody 43k car and it piston slaps like they surely should have fixed the issues by now! I feather my throttle and it does the same thing! Knock Knock knock.... As I said I had a problem 5.7 and I know the sound my ears prick when I hear that noise! And my 2011 VE does it! What a joke that GM still have an issue! It has 10,000km on it what happens when it has 100,000?!!? Worse? Who knows sorry for the rant guys but it's pathetic! I'm going to see Holden again.. It's not lifters its piston slap! Grrrrrr!

[Diesel_junkie]

I'll check out the sound files if you could direct me.

[davey g-force]

Lifter noise
Piston slap
Piston rattle
Knocking

Are any or all of these the same thing? Can someone describe what they sound like or provide links to sound files / videos? Is the noise very obvious if you have it?

I haven't noticed anything unusual in mine, but would like to know just in case..

[Potta9]

Wouldn't know if mine rattles or not with the roller rockers and exhaust I can't hear crap with mine.

[Diesel_junkie]

When it's stone cold over night start it early in morning feather the throttle you will probably hear a rattle noise it's quite a quick sounding noise in other words it's not a slow noise if you can understand what I'm getting at lol!! Also when stone cold let clutch out put engine under load listen carefully you might hear "knock knock knock knock" coming from the engine bay. Once you get an ear for it you will pick the noise straight away. What I find laughable Is that Holden couldn't hear the mouse in my engine... They choose not to hear it more like it.

[SSVAGON]

Hay Charger 1 and welcome to mine and others nightmare.

My car, a Nov 2010 SSV VE11 is a total peice of crap. At 7,500 the lifters were replaced (as per recall) I have that in writing from the dealer, at 13,100 piston slap was diagnosed by Holden's rep and the engine removed and pistons coated after a long battle. Now at 15,000 the car has gone into limp mode when started, was "repaired", then an hour after getting it back, did the same again while driving. It is now back at the dealer, pulled apart, while they try and find out what the problem is. The Holden reps I am sure don't care, and when I ask for a new engine, they give me a sob story about how much it cost them to rectifiy the piston slap issue and its not economically viable for them to replace the engine. Huh? It's not economically viable for me to spend $50K on a car and be without it for 55 days in 12 months. Now I'm driving a crappy VZ instead of my SSV.

Oh, I need to add my dealer has been great through this process, in no way do I blame the dealer for the break down or other problems. The engine in my eyes is just a bucket of badly screwed together bolts.

[HEXEM]

Sorry guys forgot to post the link to the other thread. Now updated.

Davey, check out the link is post #6 for videos of the clunk/knocking noise on cold startup.

Cheers guys, your not alone on this and your not ranting. This just simply should not occur regardless of material the engine is made out of.

Just to let you guys know. Holden currently have excess L77 (2011/12) 6.0ltr engines in supply to be moved through the parts division. No excusses for not replacing the engine...

Happy to speak to any of you if you want to call me.

Cheers
Phil

[Diesel_junkie]

Is there a recall on lifters??? Mines a series 2 feb 2011 build on the car. Im not replacing my engine because in reality it won't fix it

[HEXEM]

New engine fixed my cold start clunking so far... PM sent Diesel..

[davey g-force]

Thanks Phil.

So all your issues are now (finally) solved?

[Charger1]

build date on my engine is Dec 09 just for reasons of making comparisions ! GM engineers made coment of my non stock exhaust system being somewhat louder than standard and were quick to add that they were wondering why I would complain about small mechanical noises coming from the front- WTF ? What about HSV's and I guess they never noticed that 9 out of 10 SS's have had an aftermarket exhaust fitted.....oh the sacrilege of removing their quiet- efficient- free flowing system- tut tut ! then they had the cheek to ask the dealer if I had messed with the computer- all without my right of reply....

[Diesel_junkie]

As I suspected mine is a September 2010 build ON THE ENGINE car is FEB 2011. My noise is a faint knock it's not loud like hexams car well one of the engines he had anyway lol... Holden crap on about mods like exhausts as if you supercharged and stroked it.

[pazzogen3]

By the looks of it it's starting to become a problem like the LS1, if you go onto USA forums like LS1TECH,G8 forum very very common over there. It's a pity as these motors a good out of the box, but noisey as hell.

[HEXEM]

Thanks Phil.

So all your issues are now (finally) solved?

So far so good...

[HEXEM]

Yeah the build date of engines in these complaints is consistant with what a few of us (Bluessv, myself) have been saying. Although Gazz yours is an L98? which is where my dramas started. Now I have a 2011 build L77.
If they decide to replace your engine it will not be an L98 as they are no longer produced nor can be sourced by Holden. You will get the L77 and they (Holden) have to carry out a rework of the engine to suit earlier model (series1) VE's.

Cheers
Phil

P.S. When they were fitting my L77 one of the mechanics when to move an E3 HSV Maloo ute into the workshop and it had the same knocking noise my car had. I pointed it out to the techs and they said shhhhh!.... nice one....

[Charger1]

Hi Phil- not really familiar with the engine codes on these cars- would you please explain the differences between the L77 and L98 motors and how I would identify mine ?

[Diesel_junkie]

Ok; L98 is the engine that MANUAL V8's and AUTO V8's had up to 2009 (not sure when) THEN the MANUAL V8's had the L98, Active Fuel Managment AUTOS had the L67 engine, however once the series 2 came out both manual and auto used the same L77 engine, the manuals had AFM deactivated. They had different lifters and cams. So if you have a series 2 you have an L77 if you have a MANUAL Series 1 or pre 2009 auto you will have an L98.

If any of this is wrong I'm sure Phil of someone will correct me

[Diesel_junkie]

L67 and L77 are the same from what we know they changed injectors fuel rails and valves to work with E85 flex fuel.