07 WM Statesman - My dream car RUINED by it's gearbox!

[07WMSTATO]

Afternoon folks! My first time posting here but definitely not my first visit. Just wanted to post (and possibly vent a little) about my dream car, my 2007 WM Statesman V8.

I've always wanted a stato (since the WH actually. Love the Chevy Caprice look...) and finally was able to purchase the one I currently have about one year ago.

Scored a great deal from the guys at Newcastle City Holden. She's a V8 (I was only looking at the V6 but I won't say no to a V8...) in Sandstorm (most people call it beige) with the cream interior, sunroof, satnav, and at the time only about 60,000 on the clock (now has about 90,000kms). So basically I'm stoked with it... All except for the bloody gearbox!!!

As you's probably know the V6 has the 5 speed that everyone seems to rave about being so slick and smooth (what I bloody want!).

All the car review websites say much the same thing (that may be due to the fact they all get the V6 models to review, not the V8s) however, the V8s have a 6 speed job that I swear my brothers 1996 VS 4 speed shifts smoother!

Now, I bought the Statesman wanting a lazy, soft cruiser. And the fact the WM looks soooo cool (if I don't mind saying so myself) and has just the right amount of softness to the suspension tops it all off.

BUT this is where it begins to fall apart... If you try to take off slowly, say at a set of traffic lights, it jerks into first throwing everyone around, almost as if you've planted it.

Once you're past that and settle into a cruise the gearbox shifts slightly improve... Until you're doing 60 and the thing decides to go into 6th. Now we all know this is good for economy and you would think noise, but at 60km/h in 6th the thing grinds and vibrates so much and it annoys you enough to boot it to shift into 5th just to stop the damn grinding!

I've spoken to the dealer (mistake???) who advise me there's nothing worth doing and that's how these new transmissions are (apparently because they're now "clutch to clutch" and don't use a band which makes the older ones smoother but also slower (which BTW I'd take in a heartbeat just to get a smoother transmission!) and when I speak to them about re-flashing/updating the software on the gearbox they look at me like I'm mad!?

I guess my big question at the end of all this is, is this just mine or has anyone else noticed this in either their Stato or even possibly the V8 VE Commodores that I believe share the same gearbox.

It saddens me that I finally get my dream car and everything is perfect EXCEPT for this one thing that happens to ruin the whole experience of lazily cruising around Newy in my big Statesman =(

Any help will be hugely appreciated and anything concrete that I can take to the dealer or Holden to get something done would be so great!

Regards,

Dan

Update: I've been speaking to some VE SS owners lately and they seem to believe it may have something to do with the gearbox not coping well with the added weight of the Statesman body. Truth or BS???

[Shm1ck]

Who did you speak to at the Dealership? If you spoke to the sales guys who sold you the car, he won't want anything to do with you, (I even work for Motorama and the guy who sold me my car doesnt give a rats arse about my issues!) Talk to a service manager, that will have more knowledge than any sales member. If they can not help you contact Holden direct, tell them your story, don't over exaggerate things or say "I heard this or that". Holden can contact dealers and will see if you have tried to rectify the problem there first.

If you do have to contact Holden, you will need dates of everything that has happened, ie Proof of purchase, who and when did you first speak to, write down all names, times and dates. This goes for when you contact Holden too!

There are always avenues you can take, don't be pushed around

[vicarious]

not sure, can you get the auto tuned

[TinSnips]

^^^ A good tune could be worth looking into. The autos can be tuned to suit.

[Zerone_V]

The 6 speed autos can definitely be tuned...
I understand your pain with 1st gear... Definitely can be very rough if you are slowing down to less than 5Kms, then you try to accelerate gently and the transmission drops to first and wants to take off....

The grinding noise in 6th gear is a bit of an alarm raiser ????
Mine will shift in to 6th at around 67Kms, and hold 6th to around 60Kms. (below that it goes back to 5th)
I dont have any grinding though. Actually apart from the 2nd->1st gear issue, and slippage going from 3rd->4th when the car is cold, the gearbox is acceptable. (Well its not going to win any awards for smoothness, and sorry to all the GM fans out there, the BF-FG Falcons ZF 6 speed is a MUCH better unit !!!!!)..

As for tune, I know they can firm the shifts up, but that sounds like the exact opposite to what you want...
I dont know if the 2nd->1st change can be tuned out, (I.E. only select 1st when the car is stationary)...

But the grinding issue ????? What does it exactly do ????

[07WMSTATO]

Who did you speak to at the Dealership? If you spoke to the sales guys who sold you the car, he won't want anything to do with you, (I even work for Motorama and the guy who sold me my car doesnt give a rats arse about my issues!) Talk to a service manager, that will have more knowledge than any sales member. If they can not help you contact Holden direct, tell them your story, don't over exaggerate things or say "I heard this or that". Holden can contact dealers and will see if you have tried to rectify the problem there first.

If you do have to contact Holden, you will need dates of everything that has happened, ie Proof of purchase, who and when did you first speak to, write down all names, times and dates. This goes for when you contact Holden too!

There are always avenues you can take, don't be pushed around

I spoke to one of the technicians who then had a quick chat to the service manager. They use the old excuse of "well that's interesting. Never heard anyone with that issue before". Grrrrr! I think the best option may indeed to contact Holden. I'll get my "evidence" together and then contact Customer Relations. Thanks heaps for the advice. Most appreciated.

[07WMSTATO]

The 6 speed autos can definitely be tuned...
I understand your pain with 1st gear... Definitely can be very rough if you are slowing down to less than 5Kms, then you try to accelerate gently and the transmission drops to first and wants to take off....

The grinding noise in 6th gear is a bit of an alarm raiser ????
Mine will shift in to 6th at around 67Kms, and hold 6th to around 60Kms. (below that it goes back to 5th)
I dont have any grinding though. Actually apart from the 2nd->1st gear issue, and slippage going from 3rd->4th when the car is cold, the gearbox is acceptable. (Well its not going to win any awards for smoothness, and sorry to all the GM fans out there, the BF-FG Falcons ZF 6 speed is a MUCH better unit !!!!!)..

As for tune, I know they can firm the shifts up, but that sounds like the exact opposite to what you want...
I dont know if the 2nd->1st change can be tuned out, (I.E. only select 1st when the car is stationary)...

But the grinding issue ????? What does it exactly do ????

It's definitely nice to know it's not just me! You hit the nail on the head with the transmission dropping into first when you slow down to about 5-10kms and just want to slowly pick up speed again. Just imagine that, though every time you want to proceed from stopping! As for the grinding noise, when I get a spare chance I'll record it and post it here. The best way to describe it is if you've ever driven a manual car and you slow down, say for a set of traffic lights, and forget to change gear and you get that noise just before the car stalls, like it's struggling to keep moving such a low RPM. It's basically the same as that. The gearbox goes into 6th and the RPM drops to about 1100RPM and then everything starts. However, when on the freeway doing 100kmh, it shifts into 6th and no dramas as it's doing about 1500RPM and it can cope in 6th. Another way to describe the noise is if you've ever driven on the white lines at the sides of the road on the freeway and you get that annoying noise that wakes you up. It's very much like that but obviously not that loud.

As for tuning the transmission as recommended above (thanks guys for your suggestions) I'll see what my local transmission folks recommend. Zerone_V is right in that the last thing I want is harsher gear changes so unless they can tune it to be softer and smoother, it doesn't seem like tuning it would be the way to go.

Anyway, hopefully there's some more people out there with this problem and hopefully any fixes. Thanks everyone for your help so far. It's hugely appreciated!

[07WMSTATO]

Oh, and before anyone else recommends... I have tried driving it in Sports shift mode which seems to lock out 6th which alleviates the grinding noise at low speeds but I'm still getting very harsh and VERY jerky gear shifts, which if I had a choice of solving just one of these problems, I'd go with smoother gear shifts. That said, it's kinda pointless having whats meant to be a quiet, long distance cruiser which sounds like you're constantly riding those white lines on the freeway!

[HEXEM]

There have been many Holden released software updates for the TCM (Trans Control Module) to rectify issues and refine shift changes in the 6 speed auto. Having said that. There are other simple and inexpensive options you can do before persuing the possibility of a replacement gearbox.

1. Have the dealer SPS your car for latest software updates for your model. This will identify what areas (such as engine management, TCM, BCM, instrument cluster etc) of the car have not received the latest software. It will show them (Holden service dept) the software numbers and compare with the update. This will/may cost you and you should ask to speak with the Service forman in carring out the updates. If they have no idea what your talking about or you don't have the confidence they'll actually do the work properly, DON'T go there, find another dealer.

2. Simple auto trans flush with new DEX6 and filter kit. Book it in for a trans service (including the filter kit). WIll cost in around $200 to $300 to do, maybe cheaper... When they refill the auto trans request an additional 600 to 700mils over the recommended level of fluid be done. This is a common practice at Holden service departments which can have great impact on improving the drivability of the car and gearbox when cold (removing harsh shifts) and mild flaring. So apply to the above in regards to which dealer you have do the work.

Hope this provides you with some hope.

Cheers
Phil

[TinSnips]

Could be a silly thought, but the 6L can sound like it's 'grinding' when it's labouring badly - 6th at 60 is very low rpm - it's the driving over lane markers analogy that made me think of it.

A lot of people have had good results with the gearbox tunes. The flaring seems to be all but eliminated and the shift points are tuneable - so I'd imagine that they can be tuned to your requirements - not just sharpened.

The VE autos I've driven I've found to be frustrating at best but a good tune may make enough of a difference.

[HEXEM]

It could be exhaust drone at such low rpm/speed. Mine use to do it till I changed the rear mufflers...

[07WMSTATO]

There have been many Holden released software updates for the TCM (Trans Control Module) to rectify issues and refine shift changes in the 6 speed auto. Having said that. There are other simple and inexpensive options you can do before persuing the possibility of a replacement gearbox.

1. Have the dealer SPS your car for latest software updates for your model. This will identify what areas (such as engine management, TCM, BCM, instrument cluster etc) of the car have not received the latest software. It will show them (Holden service dept) the software numbers and compare with the update. This will/may cost you and you should ask to speak with the Service forman in carring out the updates. If they have no idea what your talking about or you don't have the confidence they'll actually do the work properly, DON'T go there, find another dealer.

2. Simple auto trans flush with new DEX6 and filter kit. Book it in for a trans service (including the filter kit). WIll cost in around $200 to $300 to do, maybe cheaper... When they refill the auto trans request an additional 600 to 700mils over the recommended level of fluid be done. This is a common practice at Holden service departments which can have great impact on improving the drivability of the car and gearbox when cold (removing harsh shifts) and mild flaring. So apply to the above in regards to which dealer you have do the work.

Hope this provides you with some hope.

Cheers
Phil

Thanks Phil, you're a legend! She's due for a service in the next 2,000kms so I'll bring both of those up with them. I don't mind being out of pocket just so long as we can try and get this sorted. I've actually got an extended mechanical protection plan on it but I honestly don't have the time to stuff about trying to get it covered under that. Short of something actually braking, there's just no point. I work at Apple and deal with service jobs frequently and I can understand that these sorts of warranties only cover parts and labour and that any testing the dealers don't get paid for unless parts need replacing. So unless you're willing to pay their hourly rate to have someone crawl over the car trying to hunt the fault down, the only option is pay them to try these steps.

Thanks heaps Phil.

Dan

[07WMSTATO]

It could be exhaust drone at such low rpm/speed. Mine use to do it till I changed the rear mufflers...

Could be... Only thing that confuses me with that is that the sound only happens, like you said if the engine is labouring, and that's only when the gearbox decides that a high gear at low speeds is a good idea. And with the jerky gear changes, I'm constantly seeing it as a transmission issue. Very confusing......

[07WMSTATO]

Could be a silly thought, but the 6L can sound like it's 'grinding' when it's labouring badly - 6th at 60 is very low rpm - it's the driving over lane markers analogy that made me think of it.

A lot of people have had good results with the gearbox tunes. The flaring seems to be all but eliminated and the shift points are tuneable - so I'd imagine that they can be tuned to your requirements - not just sharpened.

The VE autos I've driven I've found to be frustrating at best but a good tune may make enough of a difference.

Hmmm, very interesting. Thanks for the advice. Definitely tuning the shift points is an option. At least to eliminate the flaring and maybe get 6th to come in at about 80kmh rather than 60ish... Food for thought. Thanks!

[greenacc]

My 4 speed also does the grrrrinding thing when its in 4th at low speeds doing about 1100-1300 revs like you said. Holden have set the shift points at such low revs to try and achieve best possible economy hoping people don't notice the grinding noise. I know exactly what you mean, you drive a nice looking modern car that should be smooth as, but instead of wowing your passengers, the educated ones are saying WTF is that noise man ? I'm sure shifts can be tuned sharper or looser as you wish, and maybe increase the shift speed too so it only drops into 6th at 80 k's or something?
The VE is a great car but i sware it was finished by idiots.

[07WMSTATO]

My 4 speed also does the grrrrinding thing when its in 4th at low speeds doing about 1100-1300 revs like you said. Holden have set the shift points at such low revs to try and achieve best possible economy hoping people don't notice the grinding noise. I know exactly what you mean, you drive a nice looking modern car that should be smooth as, but instead of wowing your passengers, the educated ones are saying WTF is that noise man ? I'm sure shifts can be tuned sharper or looser as you wish, and maybe increase the shift speed too so it only drops into 6th at 80 k's or something?
The VE is a great car but i sware it was finished by idiots.

Hey mate, you're dead on. Everybody I've driven in it has commented on the noise. You're right, I love the VE/WM but sometimes I wonder where that billion dollars went?!?!

[TinSnips]

It went on development, research, engineering, plant and equipment, publicity, marketing, etc...

Then they went ahead and built them for 50 bucks a pop with the cheapest bits they could come across (and getting cheaper) so that it sorta-kinda works like the design.

[blasta1]

07wmstato go to newy city holden ask for andrew burke he is the service manager and get him to go for a drive with you so as he can hear and experience wat the car is doin and tell him woody sent ya and your a friend of mine ok . i know burky quite well and have known him for 30 odd years , hopefully ya get it sorted if they wont help go out to mario at toronto automatics he is bloody excellent with autos has built me some very tough th350s over the years and a couple indestructable trimatics as well . cheers .

[07WMSTATO]

07wmstato go to newy city holden ask for andrew burke he is the service manager and get him to go for a drive with you so as he can hear and experience wat the car is doin and tell him woody sent ya and your a friend of mine ok . i know burky quite well and have known him for 30 odd years , hopefully ya get it sorted if they wont help go out to mario at toronto automatics he is bloody excellent with autos has built me some very tough th350s over the years and a couple indestructable trimatics as well . cheers .

Mate, your a legend! I've spoken to Andrew briefly but never about this. She's due for a service in the next couple of weeks, so I'll make sure I see him and let him know you sent me. Thanks again!

[Hunter SS]

it shouldn't drop into 6th at that low speed. To me it sounds like the trans needs a tune. My 6 speed works great! only thing i hate is the flare from 2nd to 3rd, but i always drive in sports mode and it doesn't do it at all.