New Grange, Is it the BMW 5 series killer?

[Troy711]

i reckon the new grange (when it is released) will make a fair few yuppies turn away from their eurotrash tastes and decide to buy home grown.

whats everyone elses thoughts on this?

[blackahcdx]

I think its possible, but it needs to be a restrained in its styling, anything too out there and it could scare some ppl off

[HoZy]

One problem... a badge called HSV...

Insurance price sky rockets just because of that badge.

Cheers
MaT

[daveb8]

i dont think so. the vast majority of australians have the perception that bmw and mercedes are the be all and end all of motoring.

they see the bmw badge and say gee thats an awesome car because its a bmw from germany. no amount of effort will convince them that the new ve/wm are comparable.

[Evman]

I think you'll find that most euro cars are selling on brand name only these days...technologically, performance, and now (hopefully) drivability/refinement, the australian cars are right up there with them anyway.

[maxy0987]

it's all in the badge i think.

Having been in a few BMWs i really do like them, and i can say they deserve their reputation. However, HSV/Holden need to build a name for themselves first. You cant expect 1 model to take down years of BMW history

[Ripcell]

One problem... a badge called HSV...

Insurance price sky rockets just because of that badge.

Cheers
MaT

remember that things that have the BWM logo on it have high insurance too

[holden007]

remember that things that have the BWM logo on it have high insurance too

Agreed, probably the M5 will cost more to insure then the Grange, I saw a 2005 M5 for $150,000, where as you can buy almost 2 Granges with that price tag.

[drewins]

Do granges only cost 75k? I dont think you could ever turn a BMW driver into a Holden driver. Remember, a Holden is a car for cashed up Bogans.

[sixshooter]

The Euro car for instance is likely to have real walnut in the interior compared against our Aussie plastic walnut.

[1991_Vn2nV]

Do granges only cost 75k? I dont think you could ever turn a BMW driver into a Holden driver. Remember, a Holden is a car for cashed up Bogans.

A grange is around the 95k mark now days I think?

[Evman]

The Euro car for instance is likely to have real walnut in the interior compared against our Aussie plastic walnut.

Actually, the VE woodgrains are real wood

[Scotty_Doesn't_Know]

The Grange would compare to the M5 but isn't the new M5 getting 10 cylinders?

I would say the Caprice would be looking at targeting the run of the mill 5 series. But Holden still has a LONG way to go before Euro manufacturers have to worry. Bimmers are still streets ahead of Holdens (and are likely to always be). Holden still hasn't worked out you can have auto-up on power windows and 'auto-close-and-lock-everything' when you get out of the car and walk away... Not to mention directional headlights, LEDs everywhere (the brakes get brighter and brighter the harder you press the pedal in the Bimmers these days too). Run flat tyres are shite but that's easy fixed and i-drive sux but is still a selling point.

Yes Holden have leaped ahead in quality and refinement but price is their best attribute. The new Holden range from Omega to Caprice as well as the new HSVs are all exceptional value for money...

To compare a Holden to a BMW is still like comparing apples with... well things that aren't apples

[JD]

if they are worried about the insurance and the badge go a caprice saw the ad's a couple of nights ago they look pretty nice.

[Wombat]

That, and the small fact that for many years BMW has been squeezing more power out of sub-4 liter naturally aspirated straight six cylinder engines than Australian car makers have been able to get out of thier standard V8's...
Yes, the latest M5 has a 450hp V10, but when you flick the "M" button on the steering wheel, it changes the programming and releases something like 540hp , as well as changing the suspension, brakes, and a lot of other parameters to make it a real animal. On Top Gear a couple of weeks back they covered one,
I "spoke to" (rather listened as the poor bastard ranted and raved ) to a tyre shop owner, who had to do a course in run flat tyres as he would be selling them. "They're shit" would sum up his succinct and to-the-point comments. He said that they are absolutely useless in a state like QLD, where you can be 200km from the nearest major town on crap roads, where you are expected to drive around with no spare and a set of tyres with sidewalls so stiff they make a go-kart feel like a Statesman...

As for turning people away from Euro-cars...I've been in both my bosses BMW's over the years...his earlier 740i and his current 750...I can categorically state that getting out a newish Australian car...any Australian car...and into a BMW of that level, is like stepping into the future. Unbelievable doesn't even come close to describing the sophistication as compared to what our makers are doing. The new Grange will have to be bloody good to make someone turn away from a big BMW or Mercedes...even if they do spend more for the Euro car.

[klaw81]

Holden says they designed the new Commodore to equal a 5 series BMW, but they also said it was a 1998 BMW they benchmarked it against. That's last generation's benchmark, not this year's.

Top Gear reviewed an M5 a while back and declared it "the best sedan in the world." It is far above anything that Holden are likely to dish up any time soon, in terms of performance, sophistication and just about everything else. There is no way anyone in the market for an M5 would even glance sideways at a Holden.

Having said that, if you had $95k to spend on a 4 door luxury sports car, then you could buy either the top end Grange or the cheapest 5 series. That's a bit more of an even match.

[davey g-force]

Top Gear reviewed an M5 a while back and declared it "the best sedan in the world." It is far above anything that Holden are likely to dish up any time soon, in terms of performance, sophistication and just about everything else. There is no way anyone in the market for an M5 would even glance sideways at a Holden...

Yeah but how ugly is the new M5??

"How can something so ugly be so good?" were Jeremy Clarkson's (Top Gear) exact words.

[klaw81]

Whatever turns you on....I'm not sure I agree with Clarkson's taste in cars a lot of the time, he's very dedicated to Pommy cars despite some of them being pretty ordinary. I don't reckon the M5 looks too bad. Given the choice, I'd probably go for the M6 instead.

Back on topic, you'd have to be wearing some pretty rose-coloured glasses to compare a Grange to an M5. However, there's not nearly as much between the "premium" brands and the "pretenders" these days...a review of the BA XR6 Turbo in the UK a while back said the Falcon rode better on their NVH test track than a 5 series so the Aussie cars are right up there. And the Poms loved the Monaro too.

[1991_Vn2nV]

Well the new VE SS rides alot better than the XR6 Turbo according to Motor...

Also we dont even know whats going to be in the Grange! HSV said its going to have some very nice goodies to set it apart from the rest of the pack... So who knows whats gonna be inside!

[holden007]

That, and the small fact that for many years BMW has been squeezing more power out of sub-4 liter naturally aspirated straight six cylinder engines than Australian car makers have been able to get out of thier standard V8's...
Yes, the latest M5 has a 450hp V10, but when you flick the "M" button on the steering wheel, it changes the programming and releases something like 540hp , as well as changing the suspension, brakes, and a lot of other parameters to make it a real animal. On Top Gear a couple of weeks back they covered one,
I "spoke to" (rather listened as the poor bastard ranted and raved ) to a tyre shop owner, who had to do a course in run flat tyres as he would be selling them. "They're shit" would sum up his succinct and to-the-point comments. He said that they are absolutely useless in a state like QLD, where you can be 200km from the nearest major town on crap roads, where you are expected to drive around with no spare and a set of tyres with sidewalls so stiff they make a go-kart feel like a Statesman...

As for turning people away from Euro-cars...I've been in both my bosses BMW's over the years...his earlier 740i and his current 750...I can categorically state that getting out a newish Australian car...any Australian car...and into a BMW of that level, is like stepping into the future. Unbelievable doesn't even come close to describing the sophistication as compared to what our makers are doing. The new Grange will have to be bloody good to make someone turn away from a big BMW or Mercedes...even if they do spend more for the Euro car.

Well the HSV GTS has magnetic ride (maybe not as good as the one in the BMW), with a flick of a switch, its adjusts everything according to the road conditions.

[1991_Vn2nV]

Well the HSV GTS has magnetic ride (maybe not as good as the one in the BMW), with a flick of a switch, its adjusts everything according to the road conditions.

The current BMW does NOT have MRC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HSV is only the 4th manufacturer in the world to fit such advanced technology to their car. This is the exact same as that found in only one Ferrari. Do not think that its a budget version, it is the LATEST technology and it is as good as anything else available in the world.

Contrary to what Wombat believes, the M button has no effect on suspension or brakes. The M button does this:

There is also a "power" button which, when switched off, limits the engine to only 400 bhp, intended for daily use. Switching it on unleashes the full 507 for the Autobahn or track.

In terms of suspension, the M5 has Electronic Damper Control...which is NOTHING compared to MRC. "EDC (electronic damper controll), which constantly adjusts the suspension to environmental and vehicular conditions, and can also be set in 3 modes, comfort, normal and sport."

The HSV's suspension setup is better than that of the M5. So

[calais_cruzin]

How bout the M5 wen u press tha M button the seats clamp u into the seat so u dont get throw around doin corners.....
Sounds good but would it hold u in.....

[IBLOWN]

The grange doesnt compare to an M5 in performance. M5 in 5.0L V10 trim does 12.58 sec 1/4 miles If i had the money i wouldnt be buying a grange.

[klaw81]

The current BMW does NOT have MRC!
The HSV's suspension setup is better than that of the M5

I hope you're joking...just because it has some fancy gadgets, does not mean the suspension is better. Let's just take a deep breath and realise that Holden has only just abandoned that stone-age trailing link independant rear suspenision, and it will be a while before they get their new setup tuned perfectly.

Take off the Holden goggles for a moment and realise that BMW has been building sports cars for a very long time. They are generally acknowledged to build some of the best handling cars in the world, and are not likely to be easily beaten. I don't thing even HSV's boss would tell you the Grange is better than a 5 series.

[Evman]

The grange doesnt compare to an M5 in performance. M5 in 5.0L V10 trim does 12.58 sec 1/4 miles If i had the money i wouldnt be buying a grange.

The M5 also has 500hp (375ish Kw), and a very expensive gearbox. The HSV's should be very close to getting into 12's down the quarter, so with a few grand on exhaust, intake, and tune, the HSV's will easily match the M5 performance figures, and you've still paid tens of thousands less than the M5.

The M5 is still in a whole new league, but I think HSV would be having a hard time tryin to build a car as expensive as one of those anyway! $100,000 spent on a $100,000 dollar car, and you've got a very, very trick ride. $200,000 spent on a standard car, and you've got a standard car.