should I buy this VL?

[blofly]

I was thinking about getting either a VX supercharged V6 or WH supercharged V6, as a family car and spending about $8000 on upgrades from F.I.T. but I came accross this VL, I then spoke to the missus who said she would be fine with a standard VT if I wanted the VL hmmm tell me what you guys think.
the engine has been tuned with a map to let the engine run in and is only using 8 psi of boost at the moment, the bloke says the turbo is only walking at that pressure and gets into it's efficient range at 20psi, but has yet to be tuned fully, the car only reguires a full exhaust back from the 3" dump pipe, it has an internal wastegate setup, shaved door locks and standard maroon calais interior, he also says he has $15,000 worth of receipts for engine work like O-ringed head and block every sensor has been replaced jeez I could go on for ever but heres the ADD
Ad Details:
MAKE/MODEL: Holden Commodore VL
YEAR: 1986
PRICE: $10,000.00

~ VL TURBO ~, Forged pistons, intercooler, EMS computer, crow cam, ported head, crow valve springs, shot peened rods, shift kit, T04 turbo, Calais dash & interior, detailed engine bay, done 10,000kms since $20k + spent. Huge potential! $10,000 ONO ono

[BendyVL]

hey man, not a bad lookin ride u found urself there, could do wit the side skirts tho, looks a bit shitty witout them. but if u get the skirts, it would b lookin hot !

[blofly]

ahhh yeah I didn't even notice it was missing the side skirts! definateley needs a set I think! and maybe some legal window tint, can you buy the Calais flip top lights to fit onto it?, any ideas how much a fuel system would set me back with a surge tank, larger injectors and all fuel lines uprated?

[Just_Ice]

You can buy the flip lights but then you have to replace the front panel... Also considering its not an original Calais you would need to wire them up.... Lot of hard word...

Not sure on Dollar value of fuel system....

Is the car from Bunners........

[STEALTHY™]

ahhh yeah I didn't even notice it was missing the side skirts! definateley needs a set I think! and maybe some legal window tint, can you buy the Calais flip top lights to fit onto it?, any ideas how much a fuel system would set me back with a surge tank, larger injectors and all fuel lines uprated?

Call me blind, but doesn't it already have the flip front? It seems about average for that price, just remember you wont be able to sell it for anywhere near that much even within a year. Even worse because its not a genuine Calais. Personally i don't like the colour, but i have a mate who has one in hothouse with the same kit. Whats scary is someone paid him 20 for his, and it only had a stock RB20 in it, but damn i loved driving it. I'd reccommend getting the VX though, it'll hold its value better, especially because of the new model comming out soon, and being an 'all new' commodore apparently. If the VL was 7000 maybe, but not 10,000

[vlv8vic]

i was thinking the same thing. yeah he might have shitloads of reciepts but things lose value the second you unwrap them. he claims the engine in only bedding in or whatever so the potential may not be 20psi it might be 10 and a busted turbo.

they look like flip lights to me. regardless, they are a piece of piss to install and even easier to wire up. not being rude but if you dont know it has the flip lights i think you might be more suited to a camira or something stock. (ok it was rude but...)

and yes looks gay without the skirts.

still -get it for around 7K like stealthy said and your doing ok.

[blofly]

it looks like it has the flip lights but I can't see the seperate light flaps, it looks like a solid front piece! and a camira is just insulting but seriously the guy is an older owner and to go all out with a new T04 turbo forged pistons shot peened rods flowed heads crow cam and all the other modifications I can only immagine it being in good condition. The reason for sale is he wants to travel and needs a car to pull a caravan. He also says it has never been driven on a wet road since it has been fully resprayed outside, inside and underneath, I am going up on Friday or Saturday so hopefully it will be as good as it seems

[VS Omega]

It's got the calais headlights/grill but they don't pop up (which is clever I guess because I've heard the motors in the pop ups die a lot)

Do us a favor if you can, when you go to have a look take some photos.. in particular:

- ID plate (just for interest sake, this will tell us what it was/came with from the factory)
- Some things you're not sure of on the below:

BUYERS CHECKLIST
* The VL was always a high theft risk and a good one is now even higher as expensive parts fail. Don't expect to hang onto it without a customised security system but even that won't protect it from removal on a flat-bed truck.

ENGINE
* The VL Commodore's sleek styling and low bonnet dictated compromises not found under the taller Skyline engine bay. Unless you follow strict bleeding procedures using the special engine bleed screws when flushing or refilling the cooling system, a full radiator in a VL Commodore is no indication that the engine will contain the necessary coolant. Air locks can stop the radiator's contents from circulating and cook the engine.

* The Nissan engine's inlet manifold and water jacket had to be lowered to fit under the Commodore bonnet. In the event of leaks or air locks, this causes the Commodore's head to drain into the inlet manifold leaving the empty head to cook and crack. Broken manifold studs and cracked heads are more likely as cooling system leaks increase with age.

* The Nissan engine's main radiator hose positions were not compatible with the Commodore's cross-flow radiator when it placed radiator entry and exit points on the same side. An internal radiator baffle was used to force the coolant across the Commodore radiator core but if this baffle dislodges with age, hot coolant can enter and leave the radiator without being cooled. This can also crack the head and do so repeatedly until the cause is isolated.

* The alloy head is sensitive to poor quality and dirty coolant. Unless routinely flushed and filled with fresh, high quality coolant, expect water pump and cylinder head problems. The hydraulic valve lifters are also sensitive to poor quality or dirty oil. The 10,000km oil change intervals under city usage are too long and sludge build-up will generate rattly lifters that require expensive replacement. The cam belt must be replaced every 100,000km. As Nissan didn't expect the engine to require a rebuild, some internal parts can be expensive and difficult to source.

MECHANICAL
* Electric fuel pumps as fitted to the VL depend on plenty of fuel in the tank to keep them cool and free of dirt. Owners who run on empty or run out of fuel will quickly destroy them with many already noisy and on the way out.

* The fuel injection system's expensive air-mass meter is now failing, causing rough idle and plenty of black exhaust smoke. A failed O2 sensor can also cause excessive fuel consumption. Cold start injection components and distributor electronics are now common failure points.

* The VL auto is long lived but lack of servicing will cause failure, starting usually with a slipping overdrive clutch that breaks up and destroys the rest of the transmission. A rumble that shows up at 60-80km/h during a slight incline or any other hint of auto malfunction requires immediate attention before it turns into a $2500 repair. Non-genuine auto parts can save costs but are not always successful so check on warranty terms if the auto has been overhauled.

* In manual VLs, the spigot bush can seize with age and will cause the gears to graunch and wear even with your foot on the clutch. The gearbox has to be removed to fix it.

* The live rear axle depended on voided rubber bushes inside the locating arms to allow the suspension to move up and down but they can soon tear under the VL's power. Some aftermarket bushes that resist the grunt will also lock up the rear suspension and cause the wheels to leave the ground for lethal handling in the wet. Stiff rear dampers can also generate bump steer in the light rear end. Worn Panhard rod bushes are also common and generate unpredictable rear steering. A worn centre tail shaft bearing and broken suspension bushes can generate vibration under power.

* Each Commodore has certain front suspension and steering parts specific to engine and model. Some aftermarket items that don't differentiate between these can generate serious handling and steering deterioration. Rattly steering racks, sloppy rack ends and worn front upper strut pads can cause the car to steer on its own.

* Quality tyres are vital with the power and light rear end.

* The VL's rear drum brakes are often filled with brake fluid from failed wheel cylinders caused by neglected fluid changes. Front disc rotors are often undersized and a soggy brake pedal usually means a master cylinder is ready to fail.

EXTERIOR
* Superficially-repaired insurance write-offs and recycled stolen cars are a real trap. Some of the worst VL examples I have inspected are so bent that the bonnet has been kinked up to clear a strut tower that sits 50mm higher than it should. A vehicle security check won't be enough to uncover a stolen car that is wearing the identity of a wreck so look for any inconsistencies in specification and history.

* Holden's old single-stage acrylic paint process may still be holding up in the solid colours but neglected metallics are now dull and porous, and ready for a respray. Watch out for repairers who have used modern two-pack paints generating a huge difference in shine between original and repaired panels. Replaced plastic bumper sections and side strips will not match in colour.

* The VL Commodore's boot section, despite the big plastic bumpers, will collapse with surprisingly little impact and generate rust in the rear section around the boot opening and near the pillars. Unless a tow bar is reinforced up to the rear axle, even moderate towing can distort the rear bodywork. Look for a poorly-fitting bootlid or tailgate ready to generate lethal exhaust leaks and water leaks generating rust under the luggage mat.

* Non-genuine lights and panels are rife. The genuine headlights and tail lights vital to the VL's appearance might be expensive but faded and water-logged replicas are no substitute especially if they fall apart internally and catch fire.

INTERIOR
* The VL Commodore had bonded front and rear screens with poorly prepared metal underneath, a problem worsened by sloppy windscreen replacement. Breaches in the screen bonding can generate serious water leaks and rust which may require the metal supporting the screens to be cut out and replaced at substantial cost. Watch out for missing screen metal that has been bogged up for sale. The really bad ones will have rotted parcel shelves and floors.

* Some cabin plastics and switch gear verged on the shoddy so check all interior fittings. Earlier square backed front seats were replaced by the VN's rounded seat backs late in 1987 as a running change. Odometers almost without exception failed between 70,000km and 110,000km so any assurances about a speedo reading need to be backed up by genuine records.

This will help us help you

[vlv8vic]

you make a good point there blofly (yes yes i use the camira as an insult) they do look like a one piece setup. you can buy these from fibremaster i think although be careful if you have to get the car roadworthied, in some states the calias headlight covers must be operational or its classed as having no high beam.
youll belucky to get the whole pop-up setup (flaps, motors, centrepiece and sides) for under $800. they are worth heaps (hence the reason i have not done the conversion myself)

offer him 8k so as not to insult him too much, wind up the boost and give the beast the run it deserves. wet dry whatever just enjoy it!!!

[blofly]

ahhhh yes!! I also asked him about the car being road worthy and he has had the car over the pits with engineers certificate and permits 3 months ago much to my amazement! I will be going up to Perth on Saturday hopefully to check it out and while I am there I will also see a young bloke about his WB Ute with a 350 worked and rebuilt engine full respray and detailed interior for the same price, it will be a very hard decision because.
A: the ute will be faster than the VL because the VL is only running 8psi and still a fresh tight engine
B: both the Ute and the VL are awesome colours to me (the ute is Black Cherry)
C: I can use the ute more than the VL
D: The VL has the awesome screaming turbo while the Ute has one helluva ground shaking V8
decisions decisions so far I am really loving the VL but the Ute COULD win my heart

[VLACS]

wiegh it up,

you use the ute more
the ute would go faster
turbos suck
you love the colour of the ute
its a v8 in the ute

[blofly]

well your almost right mate except about the turbos, they don't suck, they BLOW it is going to be a long desicion and hopefully not a spare of the moment "oh my god this UTE or VL sounds/looks/feels/smells/or tastes so bloody good" ahh the life changing desicion is finally upon me, turbo 6 or V8

[VLACS]

yeh good call. for me the decision is easy though. id get teh vl. cos WBs are not my fav car. if i want a ute. which incendentally i do. il get a commy. i wonder what the VE ute will look like. id prefer it to be v8 though. thats austrlian. none of this turbo crap for me

[vlv8vic]

A true holden doesnt sneeze.

[blofly]

well I went to check out the VL and the HZ ute
The ute revved all the way to 7000RPM and was one very fast and powerful machine it had a great interior with 2 bucket seats and GTS dash but used about 25L per 100km! and the VL was beautiful on the outside but needs a retrim on the interior, it has the pop up headlights and a Group A bodykit, the respray is tops with a full baremetal prep done before including engine bay and inside the bay, the power it made was really great considering it is still running standard fuel system it makes 242rwhp at 11 psi boost, so with a new fuel system it should make around the 300-350rwhp mark I will have to convince the missus to let me have it yet so wish me luck!

[ozute]

Hmm I've just read this thread right through... Blofly, I'm guessing considering the ute is then put to rest? I love those old utes, but 25L/100k's is a little thirsty. I have seen VR V8 utes for sale for around the $10-$15k mark so you should be able to get one of those if you're still keen on a V8 ute