1986 VL Won't Start
Hi,
Absolutely stumped with my car and thought maybe some of you guys could give me some insight as what could be the problem as I'm not mechanically savvy what-so-ever.
It is a 1986 VL Executive, everything is stock afaik.
Basically, Car was running fine then just died on me mid-drive. After pulling over & attempting to start it, it just won't go. It cranks (I think this is the correct term.. turns over?) but won't fire.
These are what I have done/checked so far:
- Has Spark
- Can hear fuel pump, removed fuel line & fuel is flowing
- Replaced CAS
- Tried separate (working) ECU, Still nothing
- Battery is brand new
I believe the car was/is at about 1/4 fuel if not just under but I keep being told that it wouldn't cause an issue, Are they correct or is it worth throwing a few liters in?
Cheers,
Sam.
have you checked all the earths are connected mate as this can cause it
I'll get it looked at (My Dad & Bro are the ones who check it all, I just spectate and learn what I can :P)Originally Posted by walkierep
Thanks, Keep them coming thanks guys!
no worries mate let us know how that go's it's quite often something simply like an earth just floating and not bolted to the car
What earths exactly am I meant to check?
the one to the gearbox or motor but go through and check all the connections make sure to check any of the wires also haven't broken or dirty connections
Another VL Driver
Sea Dogs Champion!
sound like a CAS fault,,, Pull the diagnostic codes from the ecu.. Check the Plug on the CAS for corossion and pull back the rubber boot on this plug and check if no wires has become uncrimped, or corroded off.
All Earth's seem to be fine, Brand new external Fuel Pump & it won't go still. Have a brand new internal pump but not installed.
When pulling off the fuel line, is there meant to be pressure (eg. It 'splurts' out due to high pessure)? Cause that ISN'T happening.
vanders
have you replaced your fuel filter?? and as someone had mentioned the CAS... check the plug as well. i had the same issue with my RB30
Now i am scratching my head so much i am getting a bald patch.
Iv'e sent three mechanics to mental institutions
wife is ready to leave me for spending to much time on this VL.
Need help desperately lol.
OK...... I can eliminate the CAS being the cause of car not starting. Why?
A) Have spark and pulse
B) Changed distributor three times and has not corrected the problem
C) Plug and Boot is fine
Let me take you back in the begining of my problem.
Car stalled after reversing a loaded trailer. It has never stalled before. I tried to restart it but all i got was turning over but no start. I thought i ran out of petrol (Gage working only when it feels like it does not help). So added a few littres out of a jerry can and got it going again. Went down to the station added $20 fuel. 5km down the road i lost exceleration but car did not stall till 5-10 seconds later. This now tells me it was more than just lack of fuel. It gave me trouble restarting it but eventualy after few attempts it got going again. Next day, stalling became more frequent and start up became harder. The Fuel pump sounded not quite right or it could have been my imagination. So i thought i was smart and bought a brand new Fuel pump and filter.
Car started imediatley but after the test drive a few hundred meters, it stalled again (lost exceleration and seconds later stalled).
Now i can eliminate the fuel pump or filter being the cause. Oh yeh, i changed the internal pump (second hand) at this time and still no luck.
advice and inspection by two diferent mechanics swore it was the CAS. Tried three different ones during the week only to get the car going for an hour and only to stall again (same symptoms) after each instalation.
So i have eliminated the CAS being the cause.
Last stall happened on princess freeway and this time my brotherinlaw with 15 years expeiriance came to my rescue. He checked the spark and pulse and it definetly was there. But now we noticed the 15 amp fuel pump fuse (blue plastic) was melted behond recognition only the metal bit of the fuse intact but from extreme heat, it was fused to the clip it was sitting it and cleaned it as much as we can with parts still melted and stuck in there. We put in another 15 amp fuse and car got going again. Bingo after waisting money on a new pump, filter, sender, 2 Distributors, it was nothing more than a 50cent fuse. Why and how these other mechanics did not pick this up i'll never know.
Problem though did not end there. It drove me 10 km down the road and guess what........ no exceleration and stalled 5-10 seconds later. Poped the bonet and fuse was burnt but not melted like the other. Put another fuse in but this time it did not help. Not only does the car not start, but i can't hear the new pump prime anymore. Disconecting the fuel hose from the motor showed no fuel coming through. So clearly now its a pump and wiring problem. But its not clear if its a new problem, or "The" problem from the start.
Any advise on how to check it before i drive an auto elec to a mental Hospital aswell, will be much aprieciated. cheers.
Another VL Driver
Sea Dogs Champion!
u said u have fuel pressure and was fine
Your original problem was not fuel related i dont rekon..
Now it is what u done?
Put the Top fuel hose(At the rail) into a bottle and turn your key to prime the system. u should get fuel in the bottle...
If not your fuel pump's are the problem...
U said its not working now. so check your Fuel pump relays and Fuses... Or turn your car on and grab a multimeter and put it on the Fuel pump Spade Connections see if u get a voltage, while priming or Cranking.
Goodluck
Im still with the CAS Fault though
If it was the CAS/CAS plug, Wouldn't there be NO spark? There is injector pulse too btw.
Internal & External Fuel Pumps replaced yesterday, working fine. Fuel is flowing well & the pressure is fine.
Relays/Fuses have been checked/swapped over & all seem to be working fine.
Fuel filter HASN'T been replaced, is it worth doing so?
Another VL Driver
Sea Dogs Champion!
No there wouldnt be spark but a failing CAS is temperemental i have had this problem twice.
Car is fine until the CAS warms up a bit and it starts to cought splutter and stall and not run... leave the car sit and cool and she starts again and it will do it again 10 mins up the road.
U said in your Original post it wont Fire... Meaning Spark, thats what led me to CAS
But then u said u have spark in the checked section so.. more confused as such.
Try another CAS as well as an AFM (Air Flow Meter)see how u go from a mates car b4 u buy another...
Afm's are another main cause for Vls running crap and not starting..
Pull a diagnostic from the ECU as i stated above and let me know the codes it gives u..
As for the plug it may be connected and the wire/s is loose so only getting a few signals through and then none causing problems so check it out under the boot and intop of the plug at the pins. Put some Contact cleaner or INOX/WD40 etc on it.
Quick Test on the AFM is unplug the AFM and start your car if it starts. your AFM is failing... plug it in and it stalls/ runs worse its a dead one
Yeah may as well replace your fuel filter as they r cheap then u know that is fine...
As u have said in your last post your getting fuel and pressure
Car needs 3 things to work really.. Fuel, Compression and Spark
Ur getting Fuel
U have Compression
Ur getting Spark on occasion
leads to CAS
BILL77
Now i had this problem that had me stumped for a while and doing this as well,..Similar to what u have got..
There is a small Diode in the Wiring loom near the battery from the Neg terminal about 200mm down the lead wrapped up in black tape,... mine had corroded out and i could not start my car... then i could... and then it would stop again.
i found this diode and kept the wires unjoined and car is fine not a worry and is still fine with it not connected...
Now when i join this wire(where diode was) the car Stalls and i cant start it.
So have a look at this diode as well.. it was a mungrel for me to find had me off the road for nearly a week
Sounds like you have cooked a wire somewhere or have a short in the loom causing the fuse to blow.. Check if u r getting power at the pump with a multimeter.
Cheers man goodluck
Last edited by detox_nath83; 13-09-2010 at 08:35 PM.
Thanks detox_nath,
Let me try and clarify as to what you seem to be confused about:
I have a constant strong spark, fuel & fuel pressure, CAS is new (unless new one is dodgey as well)
oh and not sure if I have mentioned but it also has injector pulse.
What the car does:
I turn the key & it just keeps turning over but the engine will never actually start.
How can I pull the pull a diagnostic on the ECU?
Also, where am I looking for earths I need to check?
edit*
I removed the AFM plug and still no-go, nothing changed.
Also checked the CAS plug and nothing looked corroded/off at all.
Last edited by lolSam; 13-09-2010 at 06:29 PM.
Another VL Driver
Sea Dogs Champion!
since the problem have u changed the dizzy? whole dizzy or just the CAS inside.
as i stated above also check this diode in the loom. as i had a problem similar
If u got fuel pressure and spark engine should run. unless timing is out
TO CHECK ERROR CODES:
1. remove screw retaining the passenger side kick panel
2. turn the diagnostic mode selector fully clockwise to diagnostic
3. start the engine and let it idle
4. watch the LED's flash (red and green), the red represents tens and the green represents ones (so if the red flashes twice and the green 4 times, thats 24). 14, 23, 24, and 31 should show
5. drive the car above 10km/h, this will cancel code 14
6. stop the motor and then turn the ignition to the on position
7. press the accelerator, this will cancel 23
8. put the car in neutral, then back into another gear, then back to neutral. this will cancel 24
9. turn the air con on, then off this will cancel 31
10. look at the codes that are now displayed, 31 means you dont have air con or its not working and 44 means your air con is working.
11. any other codes displayed besides this means there is a fault in that section
12. turn the diagnostic mode selector back full anticlockwise then turn the ignition off.
13. erase the memory by turning the ignition on, then moving the diagnostic mode selector fully clockwise for 2 seconds, then fully anticlockwise for 2 seconds. turn the key off and the memory is now cleared
Your car wont start so just Key on and read codes
CODES ARE:
11 Crank angle sensor circuit
12 Air flow meter circuit
13 coolant temperature sensor circuit
14 Vehicle speed sensor circuit
21 ignition signal circuit
23 throttle switch circuit
24 neutral switch circuit
31 satisfactory operation (non air conditioned models) air conditioner circuit (air conditioned models)
32 starter signal circuit
34 detonation sensor circuit (turbo models)
44 satisfactory operation (air conditioned models)
Sam
My VL was cutting out without warning, replaced the CAS as well as plugs, leads, filters oils etc (all from Repco). Seemed to be running well, thought it was fixed, took it out for a short run last week and ended up towed by RACV to my local garage. Left it with my mechanic who rang me later in the day and said she was running great with a new CAS, which he bought from Repco too. Couldn't believe it needed another new one but he told me there are lots of dodgy new ones around. Big test tomorow when the VL will be on the road for two hours.
Have only had the CAS inside changed, not the dizzy.
Where exaclty is the 'Diagnostic Mode Selector'? I have full access to the ECU, but is the selector inside the case or am I missing something?
*There is a screw-looking thing that mentions something about RPM selector High/Low but that's all I can see?
Last edited by lolSam; 14-09-2010 at 07:08 PM.
Another VL Driver
Sea Dogs Champion!
thats it man that screw... turn it all the way clockways but dont force it. just till u feel resistance. on the side of the ecu case facing the pas seat.
Rollin
i would make sure you have enough fuel too, my mates vl had fuel but wasnt enough to start it, but enough to have a little bit of pressure at the fuel rail.....Put a jerri can full in turned the key and went straight away.
Thanks mate, I checked it out & I get the codes 14, 23, 24 & 31 but once I follow your instructions I only get 44 (Satisfactory Operation) so it seems all if fine, according to the ECU.
I'm going to fill up the tank some more, as Nackerz suggested and see how it goes.
Thank you very much for all your help & no doubt, I'll be back soon if anything updates.
lol, i bet its your cas dude. I replaced mine twice before I got it in the right spot. Cas Plug or Internal. Good Luck.
but I have spark?
oh and I threw ~10L of fuel in, no difference.
Try another cas - i put a new one in last week and got towed, she ran sweet today melbourne to ballarat and back with another new one (got a refund for the dud cas) Filled her up with premium too for a change.
Rollin
can you hear your fuel pumps prime properly?
Where do you live man?
might be something to do with that burnt out fuel fuse, depends where you are might be able to come around and look at it for you
The only other CAS I have around is one from the old dizzy.. and I can't get the CAS out of it.. Cause the gold plate (Drew an arrow, the one undernearth:won't come out)
Yeah I can hear the fuel pumps fine.
I live in Eastern Suburbs, out Ringwood way.
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