20 min cut out

[justcommos]

Hi ppl,

this may seem a little unsual, but hopefully someone out there can help me.

I have a 86 VL berlina that i bought not too long ago but was standing for a while. It would start ok, but here's the twist, it would automatically die after 20 min + or - 1 or 2 mins.
I changed the dizzy and now she wont start at all + got a really bad problem like a dead battery or something draining power big time- when trying to start(even with jumper leads). this was definetely not battery probs as I put multimeter on it when the motor was running and was charging and holding charge. I have already cleaned the starter, but to no avail.
I put the old dizzy back in, but got same problem as the one that was supposed to "fix" the problem, but cant even run it now....

any suggestions on how to get it running again and stop the auto timed kill switch??


I have looked in pretty much all of the threads, but nothing that seems to be what i'm looking for. Sorry if i missed something very similar to this.

Sorry for long thread, i thought i would try to kill dead useless possibilities early in the show.

thanks.

[Tasmaniak]

I almost think that your alternator has had it. When you say it was holding charge and was charging ok....what voltage was the multimeter saying?

Also, when it died after 20 minutes, would it start again?

[flow=go]

some of the after market vl crank angle sensors are very poor quality i have fitted two brand new ones that never worked or did you fit s/h dizzy - could also be faulty
did you set the timing correct if you have too much advance the motor will "kick back"when cranking try disconnecting the coil lead and see if it will crank normally

[justcommos]

Alternator seems to be charging ok (around 13 or 14V) and I placed the battery in my other VL (I'm at an advantage that i have 2) and turned over first kick. Ok, there's a possibility that one motor has less compression than the other, but a battery that turns the shot motor over for about a minute, should at least turn the other over for about 30 secs. I also put jumper leads on the car to start it, and still cranks for very little time b4 it sounds like a flat battery/large drainage.

I got spark at the leads, petrol getting to the plugs, and the dizzy's in..... what else do I need? Correct me if i'm wrong, but I thought that the three major possibilites for a motor not running are the above. I mean, even if the timing was out it should still jerk a bit or give signs of going- and I did try starting with the dizzy in different positions.

Checked all relays, put 2nd hand CAS, put more fuel in, cleaned spark plugs and even looked for a kill switch - she just doesn't want to start. This is even with the same dizzy that had it going before.

Looks like I'm up for a new dizzy so i can at least get it back to running mode and then try and nail down the turning off business.

Any other ideas etc, please don't hassle to post. I'm desperate.

[vlv8vic]

you say its got spark, but when coils are on the way out tehy can often limp along like a prick for ages, but once warm (say your 20 mins) they will start to screw themselves.
i dont think thats whats wrong right now but i may have something to do with the original problem.

[flow=go]

if the dizzy timing is too far out the motor will do absolutely nothing how did you time the dizzy

[vlv8vic]

yeah true. cant just bung them in without any thought.....

[justcommos]

what do you mean by:

... cant just bung them in without any thought.....

That would have to be the problem then....
I mean, I marked the position of where it was and all that(the adjusting bolt on the motor), but did i have to mark where the rotor button was too??

Ok, say if didn't mark where the button was, what can i do now? is the anyway to get it back? Is there anything that i can do at all? I'm screwed aren't I????

[vlv8vic]

whats the rule for vl anyone know? on older engines you need to take out plug number one, gently turn the engine (by hand) until piston 1 is at the very top of its cycle, you can do this by putting a piece of dowel or screwdriver (if you can be very careful) into the plug hole and turning til the bit of dowel comes out as far as it can, but before it trys to go back down. thats when piston one is at tdc.
when you haev that there you alighen the rotor button with a mark on the dissy casing. this will give you enough room to get the car started, which then needs to be tuned properly with a strobe, or if your original marks were accurate you might be ok.

like i said thats the rule for older engines. i dont have a 6cyl here to look but if you find a mark or small notch on the dissy case i imagine it should work for you as well.

[vlv8vic]

and dont stress mate. your certainly not screwed. i learned exactly the same way you are learning now (only it was on a datsun)

[justcommos]

Thanks mate!!!

I'll have a go. Didn't have any idea that the button had to be alligned as well. I'm sure that there will be something to identify where it has to be.

thanks, vlv8vic and everyone else who has posted, any other tips, ideas etc - please keep them coming as they are appreciated greatly!!

[justcommos]

Hi ppl,

Can anyone please give me a definite answer for what vlv8vic had to say about the TDC (top dead centre), I mean which cylinder it is? Cylinders 1-6 might help.

big thanks.

[hz2vl]

the timing mark is on the crankshaft pulley and it lines up with the bump on the timing belt cover at TDC. There are 2 TDC positions, 1 at the top of the compression stroke and 1 at the top of the exhaust stroke. If you have the wrong one then weird stuff could happen

If you can open the timing belt cover, the dowel that locates the camshaft timing gear will be at the top on the compression TDC of cylinder 1.

the rotor button should be pointing nearly to the front.

the distributor shaft turns as it is plugged in because of the helical gears. It should start with the pin lined up with the little line on the side of the shaft housing. It is easy to get it one tooth out if you are not careful. That would put the timing so for out it would not start.

Hope this helps

[justcommos]

ok ok

this could be very useful, so have a little patience with me - i want to understand this clearly.

I've got another VL that is running. I should just park it next to the other vl, first off, right? Ok, now tell me if the following steps are the right thing to do (btw RVL=running VL & NRVL= not running VL):

- Chock the wheels of both cars
- Put them both into Neutral
- Pull number 1 lead and plug out from both cars
- Find TDC from RVL-using rod in spark plug hole (turning pulley if necessary)
- Mark position of rotor button (obviously cap is off by now)
- Go over to NRVL find TDC by rod going up to highest point b4 descent
- Reallign/adjust dizzy via pulling out and making the same as RVLs position (taking into account spherical gears).

But I would still need to check if the groove on pulley lines up with notch on the timing cover or vice versa (i.e. as you said exhaust or inlet), right?

I'm explaining it the above way cause if i pull the timing cover off, won't i need gaskets? Is it harder or easier doing it this way?

Thanks. Very much appreciated.

[justcommos]

ok,
I really am just posting this up so that hz2vl would put a post but if anyone else knows the answer, don't hesitate to jump in.

thanks

[vlv8vic]

im out... i got nothing new. do it though. the worst thing that can happen is the car still wont go. if teh timing is out too much it wont run, if its out a bit itll run like shit but at least you have a starting point. have a crack, make miner adjustments and see how you go. Goodluck mate.

[justcommos]

Hi People,

I have to say thanks to all those that posted....

"The car is running now" - The problem was that i had the dizzy 180 degrees out of phase. Changed it over- started first kick. I haven't had it running for a while in case it won't start up again. I'll keep you all in the know if it still cuts out.

Thanks again.