Weird Noise Manual VL

[Holdfast]

I've got this weird noise that I can't find somewhere in the drive chain (I think)

Sounds like a Uni joint but all the joints are ok as are all the wheel bearings.

The noise isn't coming from the diff but seems to be somewhere around?? the manual gear box.

In Neutral and the engine running, there's no noise.

Engine runs smooth and beaut (original motor 370, 000km)

New clutch 18 months ago.

Balanced Drive shaft and new bearings also 18 months ago.

WaterPump is in good condition and no noise or leaks.

Noise seems to abate when cruising in 4th and 5th gear.

Most niose is driving slowly, or taking off in 1st and 2nd gear.

I've changed the manual Transmission oil and triple checked the oil level is ok.

Any suggestions or help to diagnose this bluddy noise would be great.

Cheers

[mag]

I've got this weird noise that I can't find somewhere in the drive chain (I think)

Sounds like a Uni joint but all the joints are ok as are all the wheel bearings.

The noise isn't coming from the diff but seems to be somewhere around?? the manual gear box.

In Neutral and the engine running, there's no noise.

Engine runs smooth and beaut (original motor 370, 000km)

New clutch 18 months ago.

Balanced Drive shaft and new bearings also 18 months ago.

WaterPump is in good condition and no noise or leaks.

Noise seems to abate when cruising in 4th and 5th gear.

Most niose is driving slowly, or taking off in 1st and 2nd gear.

I've changed the manual Transmission oil and triple checked the oil level is ok.

Any suggestions or help to diagnose this bluddy noise would be great.

Cheers

Sorry but it sounds like bearings in the gearbox..

Try this engine running bring up the revs, listen 4 noise and if it's there push in the clutch and see if it stops...

[Stewart1000]

mate, i had the same problem.
it will be the main shaft front bearing most likely, of the counter centre bearing.
Mine was the counter centre bearing, it was absolutely finished, but if one bearing goes the others will soon follow so replace them all.
if you have some mechanical knowledge and access to the right tooling you can fix it for around $130 yourself.
i got the 6 bearings for a bit under $90 but i got trade on that. so if you know someone who can get you trade price, get them to buy them.

also, there are 2 bearings that are the same, those 2 bearings are something like $30 each, when you can get another bearing with a seal attached for $8, you knock the seal off and its the same bearing so make sure you look into that.

ill get the part numbers tomorrow, i forgot to take home my little piece of paper

there are 6 bearings, 2 in the centre plate and 2 in the bellhousing and 2 in the end case, the ones in the end case are pressed onto the shafts, one in the bell housing, the main shaft bearing will come off without a hitch, the bearing on the bellhousing side is pressed on.

BIG WARNIGN HERE
when you are removing the main shaft centre plate bearing, you will most likely need to use a press, take it slow, keep checking that everything has clearance between the centre plate the the press frame. I cracked my centre plate yesterday and i have rang everyone around and nobody has a centre plate.
I actually drilled into it on the fracture line with a drill bit about 7mm and filled it with the MIG, bearings fit in, lets hope she doesn't break apart inside the box.

if you need advise on how to take the box apart PM me

[Holdfast]

Hi mag and Stewart1000

Thanks for your help and quick responses

>>>>>>>>>>Try this engine running bring up the revs, listen 4 noise and if it's there push in the clutch and see if it stops...<<<<<<<<<<


Yep did this at about 5 to 10km/h and the noise goes.

Thanks for the warning and good info "Stewart" I'll look into replacing the bearings myself; never done it before but can't afford not to get things right.

Cheers and thanks again, you guys are brilliant:-)

[mag]

Hi mag and Stewart1000

Thanks for your help and quick responses

>>>>>>>>>>Try this engine running bring up the revs, listen 4 noise and if it's there push in the clutch and see if it stops...<<<<<<<<<<


Yep did this at about 5 to 10km/h and the noise goes.

Thanks for the warning and good info "Stewart" I'll look into replacing the bearings myself; never done it before but can't afford not to get things right.

Cheers and thanks again, you guys are brilliant:-)

What the test of pushing in the clutch does is stop the main shaft in the gearbox from turning while the clutch is in and if that stops the noise, it's normally the gearbox bearings...

[Holdfast]

Hi Stewart1000

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ill get the part numbers tomorrow, i forgot to take home my little piece of paper

there are 6 bearings, 2 in the centre plate and 2 in the bellhousing and 2 in the end case, the ones in the end case are pressed onto the shafts, one in the bell housing, the main shaft bearing will come off without a hitch, the bearing on the bellhousing side is pressed on.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


Thanks for that Stewart, emailed you recently.

Is there any chance of a quick run down on the tools I'll need, I reckon I've got one or two trips left in the VL before she is grounded and then it will be the pushbike down to get parts:-)


Cheers and thanks again.

[Stewart1000]

well you'll need a 27mm socket of spanner and another big one, cant remember the size, low 20's i think. a big shifter would be the way to go if you don't have the spanners, something like a 400mm shifter.

a tip with getting the big nuts off without the shafts spinning, put a scrunched up rag in between gears.

the problem with doing in yourself is one gear on the counter shaft is very close to the centre plate and you cant really use a bearing puller to pull it off because there isn't enough room so you'll need a press for that one.

make sure you take photos of every part you take off before it comes off, write it down, do something to remember because when its time to put it back together things can get a bit tricky, which way gears go on.
The shifting forks shafts go through the centre plate and all have balls and springs pushing onto them, take the springs out before you go removing parts because they will spring out and youll loose them.

lets get a few names for parts.
the gearbox housing is made up of three parts, the bellhousing centre plate and end case, bellhousing is the front part that mates the engine, centre plate is in between the bell housing and end case, the end case is the rear part of the transmission after the centre plate.
the centre plate holds all the gears.

getting the box apart involves taking the shifter out, removing the 2 bolts on the side of the shifter part of the end case and take the springs out, remove the roll pin with a punch and remove the shifter rod end. remove plate in the bell housing, remove snap ring, circlips whatever is in there. Right now you would have the end case off, able to see the majority of the gears.

more parts, the main shaft it the long shaft with the gears attached to it, the counter shaft is the shorter shaft with the gears physically attached to it.

to get the centre plate off the bell housing you hit the main shaft and counter shaft with a brass punch alternating between shafts so they come out evenly.

Now you have the centre plate with all gears, shifting forks, and rods.

wiggle the selector shaft till it comes out. Punch out the roll pins from the shifting forks. remove all springs by taking out the bolts from the outside of the centre plate and taking the springs out. those springs push onto small balls that stop the forks shifting place and not going into 2 gears at the same time. now remove the shifting rods.

you should now have just the gears, nothing else, you need to pull all bearings off that are on the end of any shaft, then start pulling gears off the main shaft, be careful not to mess up parts as its a tricky thing to get it back together.

i would suggest getting a pro to do it is you haven't pulled a gearbox apart before.

[Holdfast]

Stewart1000

WOW! Thanks for all that info Stewart1000; You've given me enough confidence to have a crack.

I like the ideas of taking the pictures, good suggestion and will do, thanks again:-)

Cheers

[Stewart1000]

remember you need a press.
good to see you will give it a go, i thought you'd read that and forget about it.

you can get the front and rear seals for around $15 all up.

remember to take nots of what came from where

[Holdfast]

Question about bearing puller.


Well, I've got the bearing overhaul kit and I'm just sorting some tools out.

I've got a copy of the Gregories strip down procedure and read the notes.

Re-read all your tips Stewart1000.

Have to buy some other tools though.

Since I'm working by myself I reckon it's time I bought a trolley jack and was wondering what type of bearing puller I should get???

A two teeth or 3 teeth puller??

Any suggestions on additional tools or gizmos before I start??

Regards Holdy

[Stewart1000]

sorry boyut the late reply, been gettign my gearbox in.
ok, probably best to get a 2 tooth cos you can do more with it. the 3 would be better for this job but the 2 would easily do the job.

youll want some locktite for a few little bolts on the centre plate and i got the part numbers of the cheap bearings, just knock out the seal and they are perfect, ill post them up later.
you'd want a new spighot bust, less than $10, make sure they give you the Nissan one, not a Holden one. The holden ones are much bigger than the Nnissan ones.

[Holdfast]

Hi stewart1000 :-)

Thanks for the reply.

I'm having a crap time trying to get the transmission out. I'm working by myself and have a trolley jack under the tranny but can only get it seperated by about 50mm and then the bell housing seems to get stuck on the side of the car.

Reading from the haines repair manual they don't give much info.

I've done as they said in the Gregorys repair manual but I still can't seem to get it that touch more?? Maybe I need to eat more weetbix or vegimite :-)

Do you or others have any tips? I'm worried that if I let the rear end of the transmission drop tp low then it might cause damage somewhere:-(

[Holdfast]

Well, got the MF5 transmission out:-)

Doing it your self is a bit tricky for a first timer but now she's out and I caused no damage to where the input shaft goes into the clutch.

What I ended up doing was used a couple of jacks to keep the transmission reasonably level ( A trolley Jack and another hydraulic jack)and then I rotated the Transmission and Bell Housing to the left so that the part on the bell housing that accepts the starter motor (which sticks out a bit) gave me a bit more clearance so I could manouvre the gear box. The Clutch Fork and spring came off too while I was manouvreing but no damage was caused.

I sort of got the G Box on the point of balance by jacking the trolley jack ever so slightly up and down and then put a bit of rearward pressure (pulled)the box to the rear.

I've taken the Release Bearing out, the clutch fork and spring and the rubber boot so now all I have to do is clean the MF5 Tranny outside.

Cheers

[Holdfast]

The box is out and I've been taking lots of images of bits and pieces.

I had difficulty getting the ball out of the selection housing, Magnets didn't work, turning the tranny upside down didn't work and in the end just undid the Selector return plugs pulled out the shaft and the steel ball dropped on the left hand side, so I just poked it out

After that trying to get the Extension housing seperated from the Carrier Plate was another challenge. I'm not sure of the gasket goo stuff they used to assemble the box with but it sure was strong. In the end I used a super thin chisel with a rubber mallet to seperate the two.

When I seperated them I was confronted with a bearing race. All the balls were intact as was most of the race but some bits were down by the selection housing but most of the bearing was still attached so that was a relief.

A Thanks goes out to you and that other chap for diagnosing the problem You guys a money savers

Anyway, at the moment I;m off to the shops to buy some descent circlip pliers, outer and inner; mine broke as I was trying to get the snap ring off the outer race of the input shaft bearing.

One thing I've learn't is that you really do need descent tools. Cheap crap just doesn't do the job.

The box and gears look really good so far and when I turn the mainshaft it's as smooth as silk, hardly any play and I think I may have stopped driving the car just in time (362,000km).

[Holdfast]

Today I pulled off all those you beaut springs, ball bearings, the plunger and all those shift rails, crikey I didn't have any punches for the roll pins so I cut down a few old screw drivers and improvised, even used a old drill bit to take out the smaller roll pin. Those ball bearings are a pain to get out but with a cut down screw driver attached to a really strong magnet they come out ok. I used a bit of wire made into a hook to get the springs out.

Now I'm down to pulling off the layshaft Front Bearing, except that the Gear Puller I bought won't fit as there's not enough clearance to pull the bearing but I'll work something out

So tonight I'm loading up about 50 images of all the springs, plunger and ball bearings plus where all the shift rails go.

One thing I forgot to mention was that when I seperated the Clutch Housing from the Carrier plate the Input-shaft bearing stayed in the Clutch housing but the layshaft bearing stayed on the Lay-shaft.

Is that normal?

Also when I pulled the extension housing away from the Carrier Plate the rear Lay-shaft bearing by the 5th gear and nut was totally Trashed. How do I get the rest of the bearing out of the extension housing as it's totally seperated but the outer part of the bearing shell is stuck in the extension housing?

Cheers

[bangers]

do you mean the bearing race? if so then run a weld around the inside of the race in the middle (don't weld it to the housing), when the weld cools it will contract and pull the race loose.

[Holdfast]

bangers, yeah it's the bearing race alright


What a top idea of how to get the race out; thanks for that

Brilliant really


Cheers

[Holdfast]

They say in all the good books never ever tamper with Bearing or gear pullers!

If you grind them, then you weaken the metal or can change the structural strength. I agree but surely a little bit of grinding won't hurt

Well, I reckon the books are right and I'm wrong but needlesss to say today I had to spend about 3 hours grinding cooling, grinding cooloing and taking as much care as possible not to heat up the gear puller that just didn't fit the Lay-shaft bearing on my MF5.

In the end the bearing came off and the newly ground gear puller worked a treat; her's an image:

http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...gAnch=imgAnch1

[Holdfast]

I suppose one of the worst things is parting with bucks to fix the VL but when you gain a bit of knowledge it gives you a warm fuzzy feeling to know that you can overcome things your self with plenty of help from this forum.

Recently my gear box shit itself, bangers and stewart1000 were kind enough to diagnose the problem.

Stewy, helped with lots of info and the diagrams from his web-site and he also helped me with basic tool lists and what to expect

Now, many days down the track, I'm still getting a few parts and working out things; my main concern at the moment is that sleeve in the extension housing and the scary prospect of having to by a short prop plus sleeve.

Anyway, to cut a long story short, I'm not one to do things boggy and I reckon that bolt on bolt off stuff is a sinch if you have plenty of time and plenty of tools and a flare for having a go which is the ausssie spirit.

Now, I'm at the stage where I'm waiting for a few parts, circlips, roll pins, seals, gaskets etc and those *@#$%^& sleeves for the extension housing that have to come up from Melb

I've spent many hours turning pullers into presses and hours grinding pullers to fit, making extension arms for the pullers and generally having a great time with a glass of booze and a greasy photocopy of how to strip down the MF5in my garage by myself.

Anyway, at the moment I'm cleaning components, doing lots of *@#$%^& bike riding and looking forward to Thursday 19th when the parts will be in.

Cheers

[Holdfast]

PS

Just wanted to say that riding the bike is getting me fit but riding back from Super Cheap Autos, me pedal fell off the bike and the up hill ride was @#$%^& crook.

[Holdfast]

Easy!

If anyone tells you that things are technical and you can't do it! Just remember some other ******** did.

[Holdfast]

Crikey,it's taken awhile; but now the box is ready for the install.

Without you guys I'd be stuffed! Thanks for all your wisdom and the time you've taken to tap the keys ta help others.

Thanks; fromt he heart!

Holdy

[mag]

Crikey,it's taken awhile; but now the box is ready for the install.

Without you guys I'd be stuffed! Thanks for all your wisdom and the time you've taken to tap the keys ta help others.

Thanks; fromt he heart!

Holdy

No probs at all