has mild super powers
gearbox problems
how hard is it to rebuild a 5 speed box 4 a VL becouse i'm thinking about rebuilding it myself ? 5 weeks ago i wasted 500 on a 5 speed box . I then put in and found that i was worse than the original box i had taken out. I realy want to keep my car as a manual but i'm not willing to spend $1000-$1500 on an other box for my non turbo VL right now . I've got the option of rebuilding my original box , buying another box or changing it to a Auto . Does anyone have any suggestions as i'm running out of money and patience ?
Originally Posted by VS Omega
Donating Member
how hard is it to rebuild a 5 speed box 4 a VL becouse i'm thinking about rebuilding it myself ? 5 weeks ago i wasted 500 on a 5 speed box . I then put in and found that i was worse than the original box i had taken out
I rebuilt mine the other year and I'm a novice.
If you need some images of the box stripped down or some tips I'd be happy to help out.
The one thing that is handy though is a good repair manual.
I've got 3 of them, the "Max Ellery's Edition" The Haynes and the Gregorys repair manuals.
If the rear bearing has gone you might be able to fix it quite quickly; mine went but I decided to put new bearings through the whole MF5 box. This took a fair bit of time because I tend to keep all things nice and tidy plus super clean. "Time may be your enemy"
I took an image of every part that I pulled apart with a digital camera and also tagged and bagged every part to ensure everything was in sequence.
I'm a Ex carpenter by trade so I had a fair few tools or knew about how to adapt pullers and pushes etc to get the gears and bearings off the shafts.
A solid work bench with a good strong vice is strongly advised.
Some parts of the manual transmission are tricky and you will need to take care by doing things slowly especially when removing the ball bearings and springs etc. Some of the pins will need to be driven out or punched out; this can be tricky to.
A professional pair of C Clip pliers and a very large shifter, feeler guages and other tools are necessary but don't let this put you off. The sence of pride that you fixed something your self makes ya feel really good.
Having said that (I'm not trying to stand on a soap box here) if you have a good job and like your job, why not stay at work a bit longer and get the professionals to do it for you.
If you can take the box out yourself and refit it then you can save heaps. Don't forget that if the clutch has seen plenty of Ks, replace that too whilst you have the box out.
When I initially started to pull mine out the guys on the forum helped me heaps so be confident that you won't be left deserted.
PS: Fire away with whats wrong first; lets diagnose the problem first and then we can give you an idea of how to fix it plus the estimated cost of a bearing kit and some info on lapping the Synchroes etc.
I've thrown up a few of the hundred images I took so if you want to have a gawk before commencing just follow this link:
Holdfast60thCommodore - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting
Just click on the list to the left of the screen.
Cheers
Last edited by Holdfast; 31-07-2008 at 11:30 AM. Reason: Broken link to image so I repaired it.
has mild super powers
Thanx heaps Holdfast ur a ledgend mate . I've got truckloads of tools n stuff i just gotta get the kit to replace the syncros,bearings,gaskets and seals then i'l be right to start pulling it to apart lol .
cherrs !!!
Donating Member
I got my bearing kit from CBC Bearings, some come with all the gaskets and needle bearings plus main bearings etc some don't; So if ya need a hand with part numbers i could / might have the original receipts and part numbers ya need.
One thing though is they don't come with the large C Clips that hold the bearings in position on the main shaft. I tried and tried to get the thick C clips but I couldn't so when and if you do remove these be very gentle with them.
The opposite is with the Clips for the selectors, make sure you replace with new ones as these take a fair bit of where and they have been known to fall off if used a second time.
Have fun if you decide to rebuild, it's good fun, a learning experience but time consuming
has mild super powers
I'm keen to do the rebuild plus i've got 3 weeks off work (due to a brake down) so i'l have a bit of spare time on my hands .
Donating Member
No worries
I've been adding a few images to my web site and also deleting a few so there will be a few new links and some that don't work.
If you need a particular image of any part of the strip down, yell out and I'll upload what you need if I have it.
In the next couple of days I'll place up some of the tools etc that you may need; one things for sure though you will definitely need a very good quality pair of C clip pliers and Torx socket or similar. A large shifter is also a necessity.
Anyway, one thing I learnt was that there is no point using cheap tools as they just won't be strong enough to do the job. Also, some of the gear pullers may need adapting so I'll show you the tools and mods I used which may be of assistance.
Cheers
has mild super powers
Thannx holdfast i'l defenatly be interested in any photos u have of the gearbox rebuild .I've got so much that i'm trying to get done to my VL at the moment,with the Group A front bar , gearbox rebuild , the back yard pait job lol and the disk brake conversion that i'm not sure where to start . i'm planing to start om the gearbox in the next 3 weeks if not sooner . With car repayments and the 3 weeks off work it has kinda slowed up the cash flow a bit so yeah. So how much did it cost u in parts to do the gearbox rebuild roughly ?
Donating Member
How much to rebuild?Thannx holdfast i'l defenatly be interested in any photos u have of the gearbox rebuild .I've got so much that i'm trying to get done to my VL at the moment,with the Group A front bar , gearbox rebuild , the back yard pait job lol and the disk brake conversion that i'm not sure where to start . i'm planing to start om the gearbox in the next 3 weeks if not sooner . With car repayments and the 3 weeks off work it has kinda slowed up the cash flow a bit so yeah
I'd have to back track and see what my old receipts say
In the mean time I'm placing just about all of the images of the strip down on my web site so you can see just about all the details
I had to buy some additional tools so that added a bit to the price and I also had to modify one of the bearing pullers with extension arms made from mild plate steel.
There will be guys on the forum with a lot more experience than me and some of the images might get a laugh from othersbut I just improvised with what I had, took plenty of time and put it down to a learning experience as well as saving a few dollars.
I'm not trying to stand on a soap box or anything but you may find that pulling the box out, finding the problem and then getting a transmission specialist to pull the bearings or what ever has to be done, maybe cheaper as far as time goes and perhaps dollars.
Another bloke on the forum helped me as he also was stripping his MF5 but he ended up breaking the Carrier Plate and had to weld it up; because of his help I really took my time and didn't have such problems.
But anyway, the images will all be up soon so you can have a look. Bye the way, you sound as if you have a pretty good understanding of mechanics or a sort of handyperson so best of luck.
I'll get back to you soon regarding an approximate price which will include:
Tools
Repair manuals
Bearing kit etc
Odds and Ends
Donating Member
Cost
If you are working solely by your self as I was, be very careful to ensure the whole
body of the car is fully supported so that you are safe. Make sure there is no lateral
movement and if possible use a concrete base / garage as you will frequently be under
the car dis-assembling the cross-member, tail-shaft etc.
Good under-car lighting is needed especially to locate and disconnect the
Transmission housing from the Fly wheel.
You'll need a long extension for your socket set to get at some of the bolts.
Repair Manual (Max Ellery's) $?
Trolley Jack $?
Blocks of wood + a large hydraulic jack(To support Transmission whilst removing it from car)
Wheel Ramps and chocks to prevent any movement what so ever.
I used timber stumps cut to size as added packing under the car to avoid
Bearing and Seal G/Box $230
High Temperature Gasket Sealer ?
C Clip Pliers 2 pair (one for compression, one for tension) $100
Large shifter $30
Torx Screw Driver x 1 or a set $?
Sockets
Grinder ( A bench grinder and plenty of time is needed to grind some of the pullers to
an angle that enables them to fit some of the gears, if you grind to quickly you
may cause
weakening of the forged steel and injure yourself) "I took nearly a day to modify
some components". But I'm sure there are easier ways but I just used my imagination.
A vice that will hold the width of the carrier plate. (I used a "Record" wood working vice)
A strong work bench with vice attached.
Several pieces of packing wood.
A piece of fencing wire and large magnet.
Drill Bits
Eye protection
2 x 3 arm bearing puller
Puller extension arms (6mm plate steel, you fabricate)
Misc good quality bolts and nuts $?
Old screw driver that you can grind down to allow removal of Torx screws $?
Old screw drivers that you can grind down to punch out the roll pins $?
A large length of copper pipe (Comes in handy for reseating or pressing bearings)
Copper Flanges to push / punch out bearings
Funnel and tubing to fill gear box $?
Gear Box oil $?
Kerosene x 2 litres (Clean Components) $?
Degreaser x 2 cans (Clean Components) $?
One x white paint pencil $?
A large bag of lint free cleaning rags
Snap lock plastic bags $?
Hand cleaner$?
Cable Ties$?
Syncro lapping paste (I never used it but you install new Syncros and or gears you'll have to
lap them in and then clean them thouroughly so that none of the paste ends up in the gear box.
(You'll need to ask other forum members about how to do this as I
didn't need new Syncros or gears).
A length of timber and a hand saw to cut out a notch tp support the mainshaft.
Err, well, like I said, it can be expensive but the knowledge you gain and the sense of achievement
is well worth the effort.
Major points.
Safety
Don't proceed unless you have a repair manual.
Some of the terminology I have used may not be correct as I did my rebuild in 2006 and
have forgotten some detail.
Only buy good quality tools, some of the C clips need lots of pressure to release them!
Cheap tools will crumble or make things dangerous.
Wear eye protection when underneath the car, cleaning components, pulling gears off the shafts
removing spring loaded components, C Clips etc.
And, although I've included images and general information I again inform you that I am a novice.
Use my images as a guide only and my suggestions as a guide only.
If you don't follow the sequence as per the repair manuals you may find that your rebuild will
become very expensive and / or dangerous.
Last edited by Holdfast; 25-07-2008 at 11:49 PM.
Donating Member
Full Strip Down Sequence (Err, Nearly)
I've include the images minute by minute day by day as best I could for you to have a look at.
The first couple of albums "By Day" 10 and 11 of October 2006 aren't too detailed but the rest, upto day 16 October give you a very good idea of the the strip down, piece by piece.
There are hundreds of images that I took "Pain-stakingly"
If you view an image and have difficulty comprehending what's going on there should be additional images in sequence that may help you out.
Anyway, I hope I've been of assistance and if you do decide to go ahead with the rebuild best of luck.
The images are available at:
Holdfast60thCommodore - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting
Cheers
has mild super powers
Thanx holdfarst . Yeah pulling the gearbox out and putting it back in again is a real bitch so I found out . I managed with basic tools and no trolly jack as my house mate had taken the VZ with the rest of my tools in the boot lol . I have a fair few tools n stuff but i'l have to invest in another car manual . Thanx 4 the help holdfast i'l be sure to keep ya posted on my progres and prob upload some photos 4 others to veiw.
Cheers
Donating Member
Bearing Kit Number
The Kit that contains the roller bearings, needle bearings, oil seal and gaskets is:
K-NIS2012KIT (That number was correct as at 20 Sep 2006 from CBC Bearings)
The kit did not iclude the synchro's.
And I can't remember if it contained the snap rings (but they should always be replaced)
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