super or turbo?

[LeojVS]

The VL mentioned below has a near new motor in it. Now, I would preffer to supercharge it, and put a larger exhaust on it, with high flow filter etc. so Im just getting opinions for now. Its an autotragic, and I will be changing the crown wheel and pinion from a 3.45:1 to a 3.7:1 (if thats right ratio??) to give it a litle more off the line. Im down trading from a VS V6 5 Spd ute (which will be for sale very soon) (weddings are expensive)so I am wanting to up the power a little, so I dont cry every time I drive to work

I would preffer one of the 'switchable' superchargers. They run like your air con on a centrifugial clutch. Press a button, and its on. Press it again, and its off. Just for economy to and from work, and fun on the W/E.
They are only about 6psi, so its nothing great, but its better than a poke in the eye with a stick..

[vlv8vic]

weddings are expensive, but im thinking all the plans you have for the old VL wont leave you much change from the sale of the ute.... might be wrong but have you thought carefully about this?

[LeojVS]

I wont be using the money from the sale of the Ute to fund the VL. I havent set in stone what I want to do yet. Just getting ideas and thoughts. The car already has the exhaust sorted, I have the CAI already, its suspension is done, just needs a new diff with disk 2 disk. About 700 for that.
Yeah, im thinking about what I want to do, but its weather or not I do it, thats another story...

Cheers!

[Bax]

Well I just completed turbo conversion yesterday. 1000 dollars, Not much more then the supercharger would cost. And It's running well, no drama's at all.. 7psi at 3,500 and coming onto boost at around 2, 2-500. It's a definate little machine now.

The blowers you speak of generally put out 4-5psi. And with the more external mods you do, exhaust etc, the boost seems to drop. Not that its not doing anything, its just reading lower for some reason. But you'd still be making more power.

The s/c I think spits out 130rwkw.
I think I'll be spitting out 150rwkw - which will soon improve with exhaust and front mount.

Many options. Oh yes, I need new brakes definately- 28 spline 4.11's on there way for 400.

[checks202]

Personally i prefer supercharger but they both have their ups and downs.

Supercharger:

Pro's:
Mixs fuel and air on the spot.
Able to be turned of and of at any moment.
No turbo lag, it's instant Ommph.

Con's:
Costs a little extra i belive?
Not many mechanics work with superchargers full on.

Turbo:

Pro's
Inexpensive power boost.

Con's
A bastard if the turbo died as you can't turn it of.
turbo lag
Only adds air.


PS: I've never delt with the two but thats from what i've been told. Correct me if im wrong tho.

[Slooth]

The blowers you speak of generally put out 4-5psi. And with the more external mods you do, exhaust etc, the boost seems to drop. Not that its not doing anything, its just reading lower for some reason. But you'd still be making more power.

The boost drops because there is less restriction in the system. The more restrictive your intake and exhaust piping is the more pressure (boost) build up there is. It happens a lot when people put a bigger intercooler (especially front mount) in their system that flows better. All of a sudden there is less restriction and therefore less boost. This is cool because you are still flowing more air.

The s/c sounds like a good option and different to the turbo, although this is a tried and true option. You don't get the full advantage of the rev capability of the RB with a s/c though.

To get the most out of the system you will want the s/c to ba activated not by a switch but by a particular value of the TPS. This way you can have it retuned correctly without the variable of whether you decide to have it on or not. Otherwise run a twin map.

Having a supercharger on all the time doesn't mean it will be less fuel effecient either. You may even find that with a good tune it will be more efficient by taking advantage of more torque in the lower end all the time.

Sounds exciting. Good luck.

[Slooth]

Personally i prefer supercharger but they both have their ups and downs.

Supercharger:

Pro's:
Mixs fuel and air on the spot.
Able to be turned of and of at any moment.
No turbo lag, it's instant Ommph.

Con's:
Costs a little extra i belive?
Not many mechanics work with superchargers full on.

Turbo:

Pro's
Inexpensive power boost.

Con's
A bastard if the turbo died as you can't turn it of.
turbo lag
Only adds air.


PS: I've never delt with the two but thats from what i've been told. Correct me if im wrong tho.

Actually the mixture still takes place in the same spot as it is fuel injected regardless if it is turbo or s/c. The turbo adds just air the same as a s/c but then it is up to computer to inject more in to keep the levels safe. If you had a system that the air was increased by a greater percentage than the fuel you would run into detonation and very soon after engine death.

The cost of the system no matter which type of charger you use depends on the system itself. The small positive displacement blowers you can get off the imports are cheap and will handle up to 4ltr engine capacity. The only other things required are the hardware to hold it on, wrining, BOV, etc... The turbo option depends on what you get as there are so many options out there to choose from. Then you have to get exhaust piping and preferably intercooling as well because of the extra heat.

Want something really different? Have a turbo feed s/c!!! This way your bottom end is taken care of by one and the top end by the other.

Okay. Now I'm just getting carried away.

[clintonhadenham]

I have spent hours thinking of things to do to my cars, when it comes down to it it is usually cheaper and less brain tummors to sell and upgrade. You can get some real nice looking turbo calais' out there which is what I'll be doing.

[checks202]

Want something really different? Have a turbo feed s/c!!! This way your bottom end is taken care of by one and the top end by the other.

Ok, im still learning but umm that would be bad wouldn't it?

First of all your defeating the purpose of both the s/c and the turbo. Second of all, adding compressed air the the bottom half would cause crankhouse presure which would mean your dipstick and oil be all over the joint. Not good.
Crankhouse presure tends to happened when your pistons are rooted i belive.

Also if that idea was good, can i see a pic of this setup?

[Slooth]

Ok, im still learning but umm that would be bad wouldn't it?

First of all your defeating the purpose of both the s/c and the turbo. Second of all, adding compressed air the the bottom half would cause crankhouse pressure which would mean your dipstick and oil be all over the joint. Not good.
Crankhouse presure tends to happened when your pistons are rooted i belive.

Also if that idea was good, can i see a pic of this setup?

By bottom half I mean of the rev range, not the of the block. A positive diplacement blower (s/c) works from the word go a a set ratio. This is great for low down (in the rev range) torque. A turbo doesn't usually have this quality but is able to supply a lot more air at the top end of the rev range than a s/c can. Hence - best of both worlds. They don't cancel each other out but work to compensate for each other's lacking in the rev range.

It is a little complicated to do and is expensive and really not quite necissary, but it would be fun to do. You will struggle to find a picture because it is rarely done.

A properly designed turbo system will give you heaps of top end power as well as low down torque. Married together withe the right diff rtios and gearbox you will always be in the business end of the strong torque range.

There is also the one turbo feeding another turbo as well...

[Slooth]

Crankhouse pressure tends to happened when your pistons are rooted i belive.

Actually, only your rings need to be stuffed for air to leak down the cylinder walls and create too much crankcase pressure.

Also if that idea was good, can i see a pic of this setup?

What do you know. I found one. On an RB engine as well! This one will drop straight into a VL.

[Slooth]

Actually that one doesn't exactly have a turbo feeding s/c set up but it does a similar job. I'll see what else I can find.

[Snyper]

I currently have a VL at home that has a powerdyne centrifugal 9psi strapped to the side of it. It's putting out about 136rwkw at full boost. The beauty of having a centrifugal setup is that boost is rpm dependent so unless you lay the boot in it still gets good economy, and theres nothing more satisfying than blowing the doors off someone that thinks its n/a with a zorst . The motor was rebuilt to stock specs since high hp isnt a priority and a 2.5 inch zorst with extractors added, water injection came with the kit but has never worked so an intercooler is on the to do list. Car was dyno tuned and had the memcal reflashed. To achieve more power a new plenum, intercooler, built automatic, aftermarket computer and bigger zorst are on the cards. Whilst these extra mods may not gain alot of hp the drivability should improve. On the other hand my ss ute will be turboed, their both good options.

[Bax]

How much did you pay for the kit?

Just seems strange that your getting 136rwkw with psi from a fresh engine and old mate on Calaisturbo is getting 130rwkw from 5ish psi.

[Slooth]

Just seems strange that your getting 136rwkw with psi from a fresh engine and old mate on Calaisturbo is getting 130rwkw from 5ish psi.

I would imagine that the torque curve on the s/c one would be nice and fat but shape off a bit to the end? It would be interesting to see both dyno charts.

[Bax]

Thats true..