Vl Starting Problem Tried the obvious(Sorry New Thread)

[detox_nath83]

Ok Guys as I have not been here since April 2007 somebody I would say has opened a thread similar.
I got a problem and I have tried for weeks to rectify.
Vl commo wont start now.
Previously it was driving nice then was just cutting out anywhere at any RPM.
I have changed AFM Checked all fittings Air fittings/Electronic plugs under boots and Voltage checks. Car Started touch the throttle and it would die (Something an AFM is responsible for and have tried 2 other AFM’s)
Changed CAS (Crank Angle Sensor) and rewired plug on top of dizzy as i found under the boot 2 wires which measure 5v where actually corroded and was detached.
Car drove perfect for a week to and from work. Then the problem arose once more. Cranking not starting had a wiggle of wires fooled around and she fired and was good Lasted a few days Now dead again checked over everything I have done and seems to be fine
Checked plugs Leads, Coil and Dizzy Cap and changed which I moved over from my old white Vl . No luck
Error Codes pulled from ECU are the usual like 23(throttle switch) and 24(neutral switch) easily cleared. NOT Showing 11 (CAS) and 12 (AFM)
Am left with 21 (Ignition Signal Switch). If i reset the ECU and clear the codes it does not show this value. Clear codes again and it shows up its intermittent <----- Possible Cause
I also have tried a different ECU no luck. Both Fuel pumps Low pressure/High Pressure are running and i have good fuel pressure no leaks etc.
I have changed over the PT (Power Transistor) on the dizzy also to see if it was malfunctioning. All fuses/ Relays are good.
I’m basically outta ideas lads as all she is doing is Cranking but not firing. Thanks for reading this Essay but I don’t want a mechanic stooge to charge me for doing the same stuff I have already done
Cheers…
Nath

[VL Berlina 5speed]

did you replace the CAS just by its self? did you change the bearing?

think it was 'Spike77' or someone along the lines on here had a simular prob, got a new cas installed but they didnt change the bearing, so within a short time the same probs were happening

try this thread
Keepin the car running issue

[detox_nath83]

Hey bud. I did not replace the bearing no, but there is no orange residue in the dizzy housing where the CAS is located.
I have another dizzy here i can grab the bearing from grease it up and try that. Better still put the whole dizzy in remembering to change the CAS back over to it :P
Thanks for your quick reply

[VL Berlina 5speed]

prob easyer to just chuck the whole dissy in, saves having to take the bearing out and possibly not getting it in correct

also make sure the CAS disc is clean, no grease finger prints or anything on it

[detox_nath83]

nice will do later having some rums and chilling atm... Hot day pffftt..
Thanks again will let you know how i go

[Bax]

Timing?

Cranking but not firing sounds like timing to me.

[detox_nath83]

timing has not shifted as i have marked on the dizzy bolt slide where my timing is marked so i know if it has moved. Thanks m8.
I will grab a timing light to be sure

[Bax]

No air leaks in the intake?

[detox_nath83]

Nah bud one of the first things i checked i stated above...
Its weird just trying to pull out my top bearing of my dizzy now.... well the spare i have infront of me here so i can put that in the dizzy in the car

[detox_nath83]

Ok lads an update. i have played around with the CAS once more and everything seems fine
I have checked voltages all good
If i leave the car for about an hour and then try start it she starts and purrs nice idle not missing/farting etc
As soon as i touch the throttle the car dies and then all im left with now is a cranking engine and no spark again...
Leave it an hour and it does the same again....
Is the ECU recognising something is wrong and turning of the signal to the PT and Coil...?
Error code is 21 (Ignition Signal Circuit error) any ideas??????
Thanks again
Nathman

[ImAHoon!]

timing has not shifted as i have marked on the dizzy bolt slide where my timing is marked so i know if it has moved. Thanks m8.
I will grab a timing light to be sure

marking the housing doesn't mean you'll be inserting the gear into the engine in the same place.

I say timing.

when I put my distributor back on, my timing was at like 40degrees BTDC, I removed it, and put it back in 1 tooth retarded and could adjust the timing to the correct 15 degrees.

start by at least checking the timing.

or remove the distributor, point the rotor in the general direction of number 1 contact, and reinsert it, trying to keep the alignment correct.

or, unbolt the distributor completely, and rotate it as far as possible in each direction while trying to start the car.

[detox_nath83]

I have not taken the dizzy out i have left it on the car and only changed the CAS. so the timing hasnt shifted i have not loosend the bolt holding the dizzy.
I have not changed the Bearing either as it looks ok not worn or cracked outter jacket or broken dust seal etc..
thanks buddy

Im leaning towards something about Electrical systems..

[moff_man]

have a look at the tps, call me crazy but it did it to once with my old exc sl 6cyl non turbo. it also can make them run rough.

also hows the fuel pressure? does it sound like its running out of fuel at all? or does it just die with out a fight?

[detox_nath83]

Hey buddy..
yeah if i leave it for about an hour i can crank it and it starts.. perfect idle as soon as i touch the throttle cable it dies(stalls) which is usually a AFM or fuel pressure issue then when i go to cranck it again it just does not fire just cranks ... if i wait another hour it will fire do the same thing again. Fuel pressure seems fine as i have pulled the hose at the enging and checked. Thanks for your help

[jatsvl]

seems like you have tried everything,
just quickly my missus vl did similar and I finally worked out there was an air leak, where the ducting bolts to the bracket near the rocker cover, the bolt is put in thru the duct from the inside and a plastic cover is plastic welded over it to hold it in place, the weld broke and the bolt was just wobbling around in the duct allowing air in.
hope you work it all out soon.

[detox_nath83]

Hey buddy thanks 4 your reply. ill have a look tomorrow at that. all other hose clamps and vacuum lines are all tight around the plenum and afm etc.
Well due 2 the battery being flat from endless cranking.
Recharged...
Cranked & fired idles nicely. Touched the throttle & all good she revved up & purred.... left it idle for about 10 - 20 mins Missed & farted & carried on intermittently.
But still not stalling.
Then it stalled HA & i heard the relay near the batttery clicking like crazy(like an anoying 8 year old with a clicker)(Think it is the Neutral Start relay) unscrewed it & was all corroded up under the plug where the wires r crimped 2 the spade connectors. sprayed with INOX gave a wiggle. Cranked & started idled for 30 mins( i know not good for plugs = Fouling)Gave it a kick in the guts Responsive no miss no stall nothing was the way it should b
Ill give her a test drive tomorrow c how she goes. Thanks for all your help VL lovers will update tomorrow. Cheers

[MISSY-VL]

Hi guys,I'm new to this Forum thingy and don't know how to start up a new post. I saw your forum thought maybe someone might be able to help me? I am female so you may have to explain a few things to me, being blonde and all HAHAHA. Ok I will get straight to the point. I have a Commodore VL Executive 87* straight 6 that won't start. I have someone else trying to look at the problem but he is stuck. These are the following things he has done so far........Checked for spark/no spark.Pulled Electrical leads apart and cleaned contacts.Changed coil twice.Removed and cleaned all leads at battery terminals.Cleaned battery terminals and charged battery.Checked the fuel and it is getting up to injection system.I am hoping that anyone that has had a similar problem may have any idea why this could be happening. Would really appreciate some feedback before I take it to a mechanic.* Thanks!!!!

[MISSY-VL]

Oh I forgot to mention that it is non-turbo.

[detox_nath83]

if you read above at what i checked my first post that should be of some help.
If he has changed coil it possibly be the crank angle sensor which is located inside the dizzy. Before you try changing it over check the 4 Pin plug ontop of the CAS for corrosion as well as pull back the rubber boot on this plug and check the wires for a good connection/Corrosion.

CAS are easy to change a quick 10 mins making sure you have the internal alloy disk inserted the way it came out not flipped over taking note of the large square hole in it and its position while keeping it clean and free of oil/dirt etc. Get your friend to change the crank angle sensor if u can get hold of one. if still nothing check the power transistor on the front of the dizzy where the small "T" plug goes on.
Goodluck

[gembox]

non turbo vl wont start .................. help !. have done most things , fuel ok , computer ok, changed CAS , then put different dizy in, noid test shows no pulse but leads have spark .. considering new loom any ideas........ ta

[detox_nath83]

did you put the alloy disk in correctly in CAS it can go in upside down. Check CAS plug and under the Plug boot 4 wires. Check if u are getting the right voltages from the ECU on the female end of the plug for the CAS.

Grab a multimeter: Earth One lead to Neg -Battery Post


Ignition ON engine OFF................................Engine On

Black wire = Earth 0V....................................... 0v
Orange wire = power 12v................................13.5v
1 degree signal White wire = 5V........................2.5v
120 Degree Signal Yellow Wire = 5v...................0.3v


Also check that the power transistor is working correctly

Its function is to switch the coil to produce spark for the system. It responds to output from the ECU/ECM which controls ignition timing and dwell

[detox_nath83]

Here guys just nice looking RB30 and its features to have a look at

[detox_nath83]

ok lads Update,....
Car has been running a dream. after finding that corroded relay stated above.
Cleaned inside plenum and throttle body fresh coolant air bleed its choice idle is impressive can balance a 50c piece on its side on the rocker cover.
Has not played up at all for the last 3 weeks.
Thanks for your help guys and i hope this helps fellow vl commodore owners with the same probs i have had.
Cheers