while I have the tank off

[vp_commo]

After putting a new fuel pump in my car I have had a strange problem.

The car runs out of petrol when it still has about 2 inches of fuel in the tank.

It just shuts off completely and the float is working well.

I took the tank off today and pushed out a dent which wasnt so big I thought.
Whe I looked into the tank I notices a plastic "well" with a hose running out from below it.

The hose had snapped off and I am wondering this - Does the fuel pump sit in this "stilling well" (I just guessing its a stilling well).

And the hose is only 6 inches long, but must have a purpose, could this be affecting the fuel going into the well?

I am confused as its hard to see what going on in there.

And should I just snapp the well off and get rid off it or poke a hole in it or something in case it is blocked?

Cheers

Dan

[vp_commo]

Actually just looking I see the top of the well only comes to about the very bottom of the hole that the pump goes into, so when I took the pump out only a little bit of petrol dribbled out of the lip as the fuel was at about that level.

So I am suspecting that the well is not letting any fuel in and cutting it off at that level.Anyone had this problem?

Cheers

Dan

Cheers

[vp_commo]

Second Edit : So when I started the car it would not start till I filled it up with about 25 dollars worth.

For some reason even though I have connected that return line thing, there was still no fuel in the swirl pot I assume.
Why wont the car start until it has a certain level of fuel in it?
Maybe it will work now and just needed priming from the 'swirl pot' first before it went at all..
Can somone with a clue please enlighten me on the fuel tank system please as it is gettting very confusing.

Doesnt the return line take fuel from the tank and pump it into the 'swirl pot'?

Is that plastic thing a 'swirl pot' or somthing else?

Cheers

Dan

[wortus]

yes its a swirl pot and the fuel return from the engine which on a VN-VP connects to the front of the tank on the drivers side has an internal connection to it the swirl pot which is designed to ensure that the fuel level around the pump is maintained even when the fuel tank is low on fuel. You will need to repair this somehow otherwise you will have to fill up more often and I'd suggest keeping it above 1/2 a tank.
I've got Holden service books for a VN which I think show how all this connects up I can check them tonight if you like?

[vp_commo]

yes would be good thanks,

I connected a line to a return line then to the base of the swirl pot.
The hose fits but I it did not really make any difference on first startup, I have not let it drop down that low yet.

There seems to be bugger all chance of getting into the tank, unless or course you cut a hole then braze it back up,
I dont have any oxy gear and it sounds hell dangerous.

Maybe it needed to have the pot filled manually to prime it up first?


cheers

Dan

[wortus]

from my manual the swirl pot is plastic and secured to the tank in 3 places. I wouldn't think it is sealed aroud the bottom so the fuel would level out when the pump is off i.e. no need to fill the tank over the top of the swirl pot to fill it. Fuel returns from the engine and goes t the swirl pot via an internal hose, the swirl pot is designed to keep the fuel pump pickup covered in fuel whenthe tank is low and it also seperates fuel from vapour by it's design. If the hose has come off it needs to be replaced, you may have to make up some tools to get it in using the holes inthe tank, I don't know if this is even possible as I have never had to do it. Originally the hose is clamped at either end as well. Did you say the old hose had split or just come off at one end?
I am not fully understanding your reply, did you manage to replace the internal hose from the fuel return to the swirl pot? If you can't get it on you will either have to keep the tank full, get it fixed or go and get a 2nd hand fuel tank. I was thinking of putting a VR tank in my VN as the return setup is a bit better but you also need the pickup and sender unit and I think it has to be a VR as the VS breathers are not the same from memory but I may be wrong as this is over 2 years since I replaced my fuel tank.

[vp_commo]

yes the old hose fell off completely.
this would leave the return line sitting above the base of the tank floor about 4 inches.
I still cannot work out why it would not start until it reached a set height.
Maybe the return line actually needs to be submerged.

So yes the hose from the return line to the swirl pot fell off, I put it back on but the car would not start until I had half filled it.

Cheers

Dan

[vp_commo]

Fuel return line inside tank

It is pretty much identical to this one-
I can see that the base is sealed and there is no way of fuel getting in other than the steel return line tibe that the pump is connected to.

So the hose outside the swirl pot actually draws up fuel and dumps it in the swirl pot via the steel tube return line.

Just has me stuffed why it didnt start up until I half filled it once I had fixed the hose.

I doubt the hose would have fallen off again, do you think it would not draw fuel unless it was covered with fuel and needed to be primed?
Because it certainly was going hard but not sucking any fuel into the pot via the return line?


I mean in reality there is no need to cut the tank open, all you have to do is connect the hose to the return line and make sure it sits on the bottom as that little filter is just a filter and does not feed fuel to the pot.

So my theory is that a submersable pump pushes and does not draw fuel, so when it was sitting in air it could not push any fuel and start the cycle.
Like displacement, it must displace some fuel inside the swirl pot to take some from the tank or else it just sits there sucking air.

Remember I had the tank right off and the pot would have been emplty.
Still doesnt make sense to me but I will have to wait and see, I will put a can in the back one weekend and take it for a drive when it is low.

Cheers

Dan

[wortus]

On those pictures the swirl pot looks to have 2 holes in the bottom, also looking at those pictures where the return hose connects to the swirl pot there is a venturi to seperate vapour and it looks like fuel from the tank would get in through there if not the holes in the bottom?
As far as I know the pumps are self priming so it will be sucking fuel from the tank and pushing it along the line to the engine. Are you sure you have got the pump sitting in the swirl pot properly, they have to be twisted as you insert the assembly.
I don't understand either why your having this trouble. Is there anything wrong with the fuel pulsator, you have all that back on properly and the wires are not loose?

[vp_commo]

Yes all seems good, yes its in the pot.
havnt let it sink below thaat point yet.

[wortus]

Let me know how it goes. When I had my VN I replaced the fuel pump a few times and the tank as well. The original tank developed a split on it's bottom side under one of the braces that hold it into the car. I picked up another one from a wrecker that was in really good condition thanks to coming off a car with a lot of oil leaks, it cleaned up really well and I put that in with new breather hoses, tank filler rubber hose etc.
I never thought to cut the old tank open to have a look, just took it to the tip.

[vp_commo]

well yes I remember changing fuel pumps and breather hoses on the VN and never had this problem.
It might have taken a minute for the lines to fill up when starting but it started after about 4 or 5 attemps no worries. Got me stuffed why this one didn't.

I will bump this thread up with updates as I find out the problem in the future.

Cheers for the help.

Dan

[vp_commo]

Yep, same deal, it stalled on me today with still 25$ worth of fuel in it.
either that hose has come off or my swirl pot is blocked.

Either way, fuel is not flowing into the swirl pot when it gets to a certain level.


Dan

[wez]

for all the trouble it is causing you, you must be considering replacing the tank, complete with pump, at this point.
Note that the series 1 tank is different.

[vp_commo]

for all the trouble it is causing you, you must be considering replacing the tank, complete with pump, at this point.
Note that the series 1 tank is different.

The pump is new.
I might have one last look at it over the next few days, it just annoys me that I know its somthing small.

Cheers

Dan