Whiteline adjustable sway bar more grip? Or no traction??

[H1GHROLLR]

HELLO, im looking at putting a whiteline adjustable sway bar on my vn commodore and just wanted some peoples opinions on them , did you gain more drivability or did it just loosen the ass end up, resaulting in a scandinavian flick any one that has used them in the past please comment . . . .

[Decicrate]

I use a Whitleine on the front of my VS and have found it to be a great investment in the handling department, on the back I have found that much heavier than standard makes it hard to get out of the corners without the car wanting to snap into over steer.
If you go whiteline on the front spend the extra dollars and get the mounting kit that mounts the bar to the lower control arms, this gets rid of the need for the sway bar link pins and gives a more accurate link.

[H1GHROLLR]

cheers mate , i thought the rear might have made it a bit tail happy

[savage1987]

I use a Whitleine on the front of my VS and have found it to be a great investment in the handling department, on the back I have found that much heavier than standard makes it hard to get out of the corners without the car wanting to snap into over steer.
If you go whiteline on the front spend the extra dollars and get the mounting kit that mounts the bar to the lower control arms, this gets rid of the need for the sway bar link pins and gives a more accurate link.

There was a good reason they changed from the VL setup you have just described to the VN link setup... . I can't remember what but I was reading it somewhere just the other day... and I thought "gee I'm glad I didn't go the VL style like I was going to a while ago :P"

[dirt drifter]

i've got adjustable whiteline bars front and rear on my live axle vs along with king springs and bilstein shocks. the bars are set on full stiff at the front and 1 less than full stiff on the rear.

i swear this thing is glued to the road. on lower speed corners if you're a bit aggressive with the steering it can get a bit loose at the back, nothing to worry about. u need to be having a decent go for this to happen though.

i highly recommend the whiteline bars + some quality shocks. the last thing they will do is turn your car into some posessed oversteering thing that tries to fire u into the trees any chance it gets, dont get me wrong u can get the tail out if u want to without much hassle but at the same time it will stay put if u dont provoke it.

[Warranty Void]

I bought the "full works" package from whiteline, (springs, boge shocks, adjusted geometry front end bits etc) and had it fitted by a suspension company recommended by them. It cost about $2500 all up but the car hasn't tried to kill me since then. Before that there was some weird shit going on with the front end that led to sudden oversteer at any time. (But a long time apart). I love the steering & feel the handling kit gives, If your shocks and springs are OK then you could get the handling kit, I wouldn't just go with a sway bar. Be aware that the change in geometry with these parts may make the handling feel funny for a while due to previous wear pattern on your tyres. I know I'm not strictly on topic here, hope it helps tho.

[Decicrate]

There was a good reason they changed from the VL setup you have just described to the VN link setup... . I can't remember what but I was reading it somewhere just the other day... and I thought "gee I'm glad I didn't go the VL style like I was going to a while ago :P"

This is the setup that I am using.

[Decicrate]

i've got adjustable whiteline bars front and rear on my live axle vs along with king springs and bilstein shocks. the bars are set on full stiff at the front and 1 less than full stiff on the rear.

i swear this thing is glued to the road. on lower speed corners if you're a bit aggressive with the steering it can get a bit loose at the back, nothing to worry about. u need to be having a decent go for this to happen though.

i highly recommend the whiteline bars + some quality shocks. the last thing they will do is turn your car into some posessed oversteering thing that tries to fire u into the trees any chance it gets, dont get me wrong u can get the tail out if u want to without much hassle but at the same time it will stay put if u dont provoke it.

Glad the stiff rear bar works for you, mine is a live axle as well and at the track any stiffer than standard on the rear bar and the car just doesn't get the power down out of the corners. If I go too hard on the front bar the car just wants to get under steer, this is also using semi slick track tyres.

[immortality]

There was a good reason they changed from the VL setup you have just described to the VN link setup... . I can't remember what but I was reading it somewhere just the other day... and I thought "gee I'm glad I didn't go the VL style like I was going to a while ago :P"

i run with the sway connected to the lower arm and i've had no more issues with link pins and bushes.

yes, it would be more beneficial to have the sway bar connected to the suspension at the widest point (something to do with torque angles and distance) however the VN onward setup completely negates any gain because of the way the link pin loads up when you turn the steering wheel

[Shearer]

There was a good reason they changed from the VL setup you have just described to the VN link setup... . I can't remember what but I was reading it somewhere just the other day... and I thought "gee I'm glad I didn't go the VL style like I was going to a while ago :P"

The reason why GMH changed the sway bar pin set-up from the control arm to the strut assembly VN was to increase roll stiffness, yet still using the same diameter bar.

[Cheap6]

The reason why GMH changed the sway bar pin set-up from the control arm to the strut assembly VN was to increase roll stiffness, yet still using the same diameter bar.

Yep. Feeding the load into the 'bar directly from the struts avoids also loading the inner bushes on the lower control arm when the 'bar is loaded. This decreases any movement of the lower control arms in the bushes increasing roll stiffness and avoiding any extra steering effects. It also takes the load from the 'bar away from the lower ball joints.

The VN- set up reflects what was a common aftermarket mod on VB-VL using steering rack tie rods bolted to the struts.

[axemurderer101]

This is the setup that I am using.

i have the same setup as that aswell and have had no problems, but i only have the 30mm non adjustable bar.

[wortus]

There was a good reason they changed from the VL setup you have just described to the VN link setup... . I can't remember what but I was reading it somewhere just the other day... and I thought "gee I'm glad I didn't go the VL style like I was going to a while ago :P"

The reason is that connceting the sway bar by the links to the top of the strut allowed them to use a smaller diameter sway bar. It changes the mechanical advantage so the effective point of anchor to the strut is about around the ball joint. I read that had Holden left the mounting like the VL then the front sway bar on the VN would have needed to be about twice the diameter.

[WhitelineJim]

G’day everyone,

We were just told about this thread and suggested we might be able to help on the tech side. However looks like the answers are coming in.

savage1987, its a great question re the VL to VN link location with excellent answers from wortus and others. I think we measured the change in motion ratio at the time as going from around 1:0.78 wheel to swaybar link movement with the VL up to 1:0.98 for the VN.

That is, for every 1mm of vertical travel at the wheel on a VL, the swaybar link point moved only 0.78mm vs 0.98mm on the VN thanks for the relocation. That’s a significant change but not quite double the effective rate increase, more like 25% or so more. So it might seem strange that Whiteline would offer a link conversion kit for the VN to move back to the control arm and loose effective swaybar rate...

However, the reason is that the use of a strut based link add’s an extra “link” to the front geometry affecting front anti-geometry. We found that a VN with the link converted back to the control did not have as much front dive under brakes and there was an overall reduction in anti related suspension binding with steering lock.

Anyway, hops that helps.

Cheers
Whiteline Jim
jim@whiteline.com.au

[Decicrate]

Thanks for that post Jim, makes a hell of a lot of sense the way you explained it.

[wortus]

I just had the genuine link kit on my VN. I replaced it not long after I got the car and while the bushes eventually squashed up they were not as bad as some I have seen and there were no clunks. I bought a Nolathane kit with the bent link to put on it as these are meant to reduce the pre load on the bushes (that's why you have to drop the bar to get the links on properly) but never got around to using it before I sold the car.
If you want to keep the genuine bar the best way out of it is to use one of these kits, the bushes are specially shaped to reduce the pre load and binding when you turn to full lock as well. (If you jack up the car and move the wheels lock to lock with the standard setup you will see just how much the rubbers are distorted). From memory some other similar brands on e-bay are not the same shape and may not work as good. If you want to try after market then there is that option as well however putting a Nolathane kit onto a standard bar is probably the cheapest option, however that said the standard ones on my car still lasted for years, you just have to not over tighten them and keep adjusting them up as they squash and when you run out of thread get new ones.
I've got a friend who has a VT and they have the same sort of setup and he has punched the link rods through the washers but I think he drives a bit on rough roads.

[WhitelineJim]

G'day everyone,

Thanks Decicrate, glad we could help.

Wortus, that's a great solution if you want to keep it on the strut and that kit works well. One of the problems of rubber bushes is that people sometimes feel they have to tighten them down until the rubber squishes but by doing so they actually make it less compliant than the stiffest hard poly bush. You right about the shape being important too.

Cheers
Whiteline Jim
jim@whiteline.com.au

[wortus]

G'day everyone,

Thanks Decicrate, glad we could help.

Wortus, that's a great solution if you want to keep it on the strut and that kit works well. One of the problems of rubber bushes is that people sometimes feel they have to tighten them down until the rubber squishes but by doing so they actually make it less compliant than the stiffest hard poly bush. You right about the shape being important too.

Cheers
Whiteline Jim
jim@whiteline.com.au

Hi Jim
Another good thing with the Nolathane kits is you simply tighten the nuts up until the bushes touch, there designed to go through the attachment points on the bar and strut and meet up so there's a lot less chance of overtightening them because of this and the fact they are pretty hard. With the standard bushes many people over tighten them. I usually do them up until they are not loose, took it to a mechanic once and they came back so tight the stering was too hard. It's a fine line with these cars, too tight and the steering is a bit hard, too loose and the car seems to wallow all over the place and not feel as direct in it's steering.

[vn_v6]

i had my car on the jack today, and the front sway bar on the left is connected to lower arm by a rod, and it has bushes on both ends of the rod, suspension was de-compressed full and compressed on the other side, should i b able to twist the washers on these bushes? cause they were loose......

[wortus]

i had my car on the jack today, and the front sway bar on the left is connected to lower arm by a rod, and it has bushes on both ends of the rod, suspension was de-compressed full and compressed on the other side, should i b able to twist the washers on these bushes? cause they were loose......

Sounds like you may have a link kit from an older model Commodore that conncect to the lower control arm? I have not had much to do with these however with the original VN setup to the strut yes the bushes can get loose when the car is jacked up especially on one side only so your best checking the lot with the car siting on it's wheels at normal height. I generally do them up until the washers just stop turning by hand.
I'd consider changing that over to a Nolathane kit for the VN with the bent rods.

[WhitelineJim]

G’day everyone,

Thanks for the feedback, wortus, spot on. That kit is a good product.

With the other VN and loose link washers, perhaps its the washer on the unloaded side that's loose which is to be expected when you have it jacked just on one side. Vn_v6, try moving the washers with the car at normal ride height, that's probably the better test.

Cheers
Whiteline Jim
jim@whiteline.com.au

[immortality]

when working on suspension only tension the bolts once the car is sitting at the normal ride height.

i converted my VN to the old VB-VL style set up and haven't had any more issues with my sway bars

the best conversion kit to use if you wish to retain the sway bar to strut set up is the conversion kit that has the ball joints in the link arm. this conversion is better then any that relies on the articulation of the bushes to do the work