rear suspension bushes shagged?
hey guys. i originally thought that my rear upper and rear lower trailing arm bushes were all screwed because they all look like they have chunks missing out of them. but after having a better look ive noticed that all the chunks seem to line up with each other. what i mean is that all the lower trailing arm rear bushes that sit in diff all have the chunk missing out of the same spot. i know im really confusing lol but i dont know how else to explain it. by looking at the following pictures are you's able to tell me if the bushes are shagged or if they're normal? its kinda wishful thinking cos i dont really have the money to replace them but i know i really need to if the bushes are shot. the first 3 pictures are of the rear lower trailing arm rear bushes where it meets the diff, the next 2 pictures are of the bushes at the front of the rear lower trailing arm, and the last picture is a bush at the front of the upper trailing arm i found that looked a bit split.
just realised how small these pictures came out so ill add some better ones a bit more close up. damn photobucket shrinking my pictures! lol
The easiest way to see how worn out the bushes are is to jack up the vehicle and support it on chassis stands so the suspension hangs with no load on it.Then get a large long screwdriver in there between the bush and the control arm,and lever the bush back and forth and up and down and see how much movement is in it.There should be hardly any movement in them at all. If there is a fair bit of movement,they are probably worn out enough to be replaced.I always use the nolothane type bushes instead of the rubber type,they tighten up the ride of the car and last for ages.A lot of people say they give too harsh a ride,but I have them fitted all round on my VS with genuine holden FE2 springs and the ride is excellent.Not harsh at all.Cheers
Wrt the pictures, the lowers look OK but that upper is stuffed.
When levering the bushes with the screwdriver (or tyre lever) you are looking for the rubber (not) to be separated from the steel inner and outer sleeves and for splits and tears. You are also looking at how concentric the inner and outer sleeves are. There will be some distortion if the bushes have any load on them but there shouldn't be very much unless the bushes are past their best and have taken a set.
Nil Bastardo Carborundum
As Cheap6 has said, the upper bushes are totally knackered and should be replaced pronto. They are mongrels to remove, but you can buy arms with new bushes already installed on an exchange basis from some businesses. (Don't know which ones, though). I would replace them first and see what the car behaves like before undertaking the replacement of the lower bushes.
How many k's has your car travelled? If it's 200k or more, chances are the lowers are ready for replacement, as well as all those in the front suspension.
I overhauled the entire front and rear end of my VR a few years back, replacing every rubber bush with new standard parts, using home-made removal and replacing tools. The car had travelled nearly 300,000km and the upper bushes were as sorry looking as yours. I just thought that, as they had travelled so far, all the bushes needed replacing. The transformation in the car was amazing. It's not that difficult, but the upper arm bushes are probably the hardest ones to get out. Putting in the new ones is simpler.
thanks heaps for everyones replies. ill try and get her up on stands tomorrow and have a look with a screwdriver. i just found some upper trailing arms off ebay for $60 with new bushes already in them so ill grab them asap. yer the car has done almost 300,000 kms now so i expected some problems to start arising soon, ill replace the lowers aswell as soon as money permits. thanks again
I wouldnt just replace the top control arm bushes,I had trouble when replacing just the top arm bushes,I found they chopped straight out again because of the movement still in the old bushes on the bottom arms,(Which were original rubber bushes that still looked ok).I ended up going through 2 lots in about 6 months (1 genuine rubber lot and 1 nolothane lot)until I ended up talking to a mechanic about it who suggested replacing them all at the same time(all top arm and bottom arm bushes)including the panhard rod bushes.I replaced all of them with nolothane type as I mentioned before, Its been over 12 months now,and I have had no trouble with any rear bushes since.I also did the front end bushes with nolothane.
There is a difference between urethane bushes and the factory style rubber ones. That is that the urethane type is intended to rotate in the the mount, around the centre pin. This is why they are installed with lubrication between the rubbing surfaces - including the ends of the bushes.
With the factory style bushes, the bushes twist inside the steel cylinders . If these bushes are clamped into position with the suspension hanging, half the available distortion has already occurred when the suspension is loaded back to ride height.
The bushes have to be changed with the suspension unloaded but leave them loose with the bolts and nuts no more than finger tight and swap the chassis stands to under the diff. before tightening the bolts up. That's not quite fully loaded but it is pretty close. Pedants might throw a sibling/mate/partner/spouse in the boot for some extra load for the task.
The lower arm bushes look fine to me and I wouldn't bother changing them. The upper ones are stuffed. It's easier to get new upper arms you can buy them new from Holden cheap.
When I bought my VN it was 8 years old and had 170,000km on it and some of the upper bushes were stuffed. I just replaced both of the arms with new genuine ones and it cost about $90 from memory. It's easier than replacing the bushes yourself and that way you get genuine bushes, the right hardness etc.
I kept the car for about 9 years and 140,000 km and the new top bushes were still OK when I sold the car, not replacing the lower bushes did not lead to any upper bush failures in my car. When you fit these you need to jack up the car and support the body on stands and fit the new arms loose, you may need to jack the diff to move it slightly to get the holes to line up. The bolts holding the bushes need to be tightened wit the the car sitting on it's road wheels so the bushes are not "twisted" with the car at normal ride height. If you don't do this they will fail early. Personally I wouldn't spend the money on Nolothane here. I'd use it on the front sway bar links as part of the Nolothane kit with the bent links and thats about it. When I sold the car all that had been done to the front was new bearing plates, shocks, dust boots and bump stops, sway bar link (genuine) and one rack end and it was just as good as the day I got it, no rubbers were loose or worn other than the sway bar links which is normal.
The Wagon on Wheels..
You will find the arms are more then likely twisted, they tend to do this. Those lower arms are very common(like you can see they are on ebay new). I got some new ones from pedders with HD bushes fitted, not sure what i paid but it wasnt to bad, like less than $200 for the pair. Ring them as most stores stock them i beleive.
Originally Posted by Blown V6 Hatch
It's cheap and half arsed - perfect fit for a Commodore
Reaper
Theres no way you can properly tell the condition of a bush just by looking at it unless there are obvious signs of wear.You have to physically manipulate the bush to check for movement.Just ask any half decent mechanic.I watched them check all my rear bushes with a screwdriver when I went for a rego check.They certainly didnt just look at them.
When I inspected my rear bushes I was in the process of identifying a noise which turned out to be coming from somewhere else.
I manipulated the lower arms with a very large screwdriver and there was no excessive movement, the top bushes looked sus so I took the top arms out and held the centre of the bush in a vice and moved th earm and the bushes opened up as they had large tears in them. From the pictures posted here the lower bushes don't look that different to the condition the bushes in my car were in. I am sure the owner can check them if he wants to. Point being in my car they didn't need replacing and in not replacing them there was no ill effect on the new top bushes. Top and bottom arm bushes don't need to be changed all at once if only one lot is shagged and whether thay are or not is up to the owner to check and he can then decide what to do. Me I don't change things for the sake of it when they are not worn out unless they are service items like spark plugs etc that have reached their service life by date or distance travelled and that's my advice.
Just after I bough this car not knowing much about it I took this car to many so called competent mechanics to identify a noise that turned out to be a loose gearbox mount. Most of them did not know or said it was the rear suspension and wanted to change the bushes with no guarantee it would fix it. I had a look at the back suspension and there was indication of metal to metal contact and they said this without having a decent look or manipulating the bushes. One guy I rang knew what it was and he fixed it in 15 minutes. Point is there are many mechanics some good and some bad and sometines even the good ones don't know everything and common practice is to change out every single bush when they are still servicable and this is a waste of the car owners money. Take it to a well known franchise place for a safety check and they will tell you there all stuffed as a matter of course.
Last edited by wortus; 11-07-2010 at 12:50 AM.
The mechanic that I spoke to about my upper rear bushes flogging out quickly, picked the problem as soon as I told him what was going on, over the phone. This mechanic was from the local holden dealer, so Id say he had seen it happen before on these cars.The problem went away and hasnt returned, so he was right on the money.
If the lower bushes are stuffed then they should be replaced at the same time as the uppers, however if they are fine then they really don't need to be. My advice to zskinner is that the top ones are definately stuffed and need to be replaced and to have the lower ones checked by a mechanic who is not just going to say they are stuffed so they can get an easy job not withstanding that going by the pictures they don't appear to be deformed and I have not seen one split like the top ones do.
If your car chewed out the top ones quickly and it was due to the lower ones also being stuffed then they must have been but as I said before I replaced just the top ones and after 9 years and 130,000km without ever replacing the bottom ones they were still good which means that servicable lower bushes don't need to be replaced to extend the life of the top ones.
Last edited by wortus; 11-07-2010 at 12:41 PM.
i just had the car up on stands and and the lowers dont seem to have any excessive play in my opinion but ive just got the car booked in to get a suspension check done just in case on thursday. ive also just bought a set of new upper arms with bushes already in them off ebay and ill install them as soon as they come in the mail. thanks again everyone, absolute legends
Nil Bastardo Carborundum
The 4 lower bushes in the rear suspension are very tough and will last a long, long time before they clap out. As I said earlier, my car had travelled over 300,000km when they were replaced and the difference was amazing. The car was much smoother over bumps, quieter and tracked better on the rough roads. The thing is, even after I had removed them and cleaned them up, they didn't look all that different to the brand new ones I was about to fit.
They don't tear or rip like the much smaller upper bushes do. They simply lose their lateral stiffness, which is the resistance within the bush to the twisting motion they are designed for. In other words, the rubber softens and allows lateral (sidewards) movement of the control arms, and therefore the whole rear axle assembly can move sidewards more than intended.
I was fortunate to be able to purchase all 8 rear bushes at trade price for about $65 five years ago, so I have no idea of today's price. Even today, they would not be overly expensive and the most involved part is making up the tools to remove and replace them. As I said earlier, if your car has a high mileage on it, the replacement of all bushes is a good investment if you intend to keep the car, and genuine parts are pretty reasonably priced.
Posting Permissions
LinkBack URL
About LinkBacks
Reply With Quote
