Blew up my motor & need advice

[Shaz77]

Hi guys,
I realise you wont be able to actually tell me what's wrong with the motor, But any advice would be appreciated.
I blew up the engine in my VN wagon a couple of years ago. My husband refused to let any one at all touch the car and he neglected to make sure there was oil in it when i drove it out of town. It blew up on the way home.
My husband and his dad said it needed a whole new motor, I have begged to get a new one since the day it blew up but they both say it isn't worth it. A few months ago my husband managed to get it started and drove it down the drive way and back up and had it running for a few minutes before it stopped.

They are still telling me it cannot be fixed but by my way of thinking if it went and drove it can be fixed. I think they don't want the work involved in fixing it and my husband has since bought a VR wagon so has lost interest in the VN. Me however love her to pieces and don't want to part with her.

I'm prepared to work on it with my son to get it going but my neither my husband or father in law will tell me what she needs and have even managed to convince the mechanic to refuse to look at it.

Basically what I need is some advise on what could be needed to get her going so that I could over the next few months systematically go through things and replace them to see if I can get her to go again.

I could just replace the motor in it, but if there is nothing major wrong with this one I'd prefer to keep it, The car was a beast to drive, never let me down once and with the 5spd manual was a goddess to drive

Any help or advice surely would be greatly appreciated
Shaz

[harry3]

fill the sump with oil to the correct level and see if the engine will start and keep running

[VK_3800]

If it ran without or low on oil for any period of time it will most certainly have some sort of internal damage. This may or may not be repairable, but given the cost of a replacement engine, is unlikely to be economically viable either way. Replacing the engine with another second hand item on the other hand would most likely be good value for money - you'll only need the bare minimum engine itself so it should cost very little if you can enlist someone cluey enough to help swap it in.

[VT-565]

Get a compression test done.
This will be a good indicator if the cylinder sealing is good or there is damage to the block or piston ring setup.
Its possible there is bearing damage, so thats engine out time.

[Shaz77]

Thanks Harry I'll do that see if it will work but from what VK_3800 and VT-565 are saying i might just need to bite the bullet and throw another motor into her.

As for the compression I haven't actually done that. I know when we got her a friend did a compression test on it and said it was still like a brand new motor, I know it's going to be hard to find another Buick motor to put in there

If I can't get another Buick motor is there anything I need to do to put another motor in?
Is there anything I need to look for on another motor to be able to use my 5spd Manual with it?
Is there anything that I should be looking at now to be able to get more performance out of her before I put in another motor?

I'd really love to be able to beef the old girl up a little bit and show up my hubby's VR, However money will be an issue as most of our funds will be poured into the VR. Are they any modifications I can do to a stock motor to get more out of it? Ultimately would love to put a 5L in her but hubby would steal that long before I even got a look at it :P

I've loved cars since i was a little girl, and have always wanted to learn about the mechanical side of them, but hubby and his dad have always done the work and being old school believe I have no place under a hood, so I'm a complete novice to it but eager to learn & now hubby has his VR wagon he was planning to scrap the VN till i protested so now I can use it to learn and also let my 8 year old son learn aswell. He loves cars but isn't allowed to help on any of the other cars. So i'm really looking forward to doing the VN up and hopefully soon you'll all see me more involved in these forums and way down the track see her back on the road

[VK_3800]

I know it's going to be hard to find another Buick motor to put in there

Not at all, the beauty of it all is that there are plenty of good second hand engines out there that will cost you next to nothing.

[Warranty Void]

I know it's going to be hard to find another Buick motor to put in there

I can't think of a more available motor than the 3.8 buick.....If someone is telling you there's none around I'd talk to someone else. If the rest of the car is up to scratch I say go for it, get a motor in it.
Depending on where you are there are plenty of Commodore specialist wreckers around, a really good 3.8 should cost less than $500 and come with a warranty for 6 months, 10,000 kays.
Installing the motor should cost $400-$500 by the wreckers mechanic. Since you're in Vic I'm going to assume you're near Melbourne and recommend the Commodore Frenzy Factory (03 9729 8126) in Melbourne's east (near Bayswater). I've had work done there and have been very pleased.

[Shaz77]

Thanks VK & Warranty,
It's been my husband telling me that the buick's are hard to come by, But as I said I think it's because he'd much rather just move onto his VR then muck around on the VN. I also think because he's nearly 37 and been working on cars since he was a teenager I think he might be a bit over all the mechanical side to cars aswell

I have managed to convince him to let me do up the VN though and get it back on the road and he's going to support me, what Info I can't find out from him i'm hoping to find out on the internet. Ebay have had some motors on there for around $350 with a 3 month warranty so looking at one of those at the moment.

As for the body it's been sitting outside since I blew it up so the roof is rusted now but still not enough that it can't be fixed, and the back drivers side door is pretty well buggered. It had been bogged when we first got it so i'll just replace that back door. Another thing that would need to be replaced is the rubbers. It use to whistle when we drove and leak when it rained. Was one of those things we were always going to fix and never did.

At the moment my biggest thing i'm trying to work out is in what order to do everything. I want the interior looking nice, going to be putting new carpet through and spraying most of the plastic within the interior black. Also going to be repainting the car aswell. My husband is saying to do all those things before I put an engine into her and I can understand his logic to be able to get around the engine bay etc. But i'd still like to have the actual engine even if it's not in the car.

Also hubby seems to think it may have been in a bingle before we bought it, and his father is saying if it was then to just trash it. How do i check if the chasis is straight or do I need to get someone qualified to check that out?

I'm in Victoria but about 3 hours drive from melbourne (i'm in the sticks :P ) but would have no problem driving to melbourne for parts. I think we're going down that way in a few weeks anyway to pick up a body kit for the VR wagon so if we're close to the frenzy factory we'll call in. I know we use to go to deer park wreckers quite a bit years ago when we got her.

[Warranty Void]

If it was fine to drive before the engine went then the bingle stuff is probly rubbish, how come it never mattered before? If it was in that big a crash your old man wouldn't have bought it in the first place, don't let them bluff you or baffle you with bullshit, keep on checking out what they tell you by posting it here. From the length of your posts I'm going to guess you can type pretty good lol.

[justin35]

Gday there i know the vt commo has a fuel pump cut out on the oil pressure switch meaning if she gets to low on oil it will cut power to the fuel pump.i dont know if the vn has the same setup(anyone here know for sure )just a possabilty..also wen your huppy got it running again???????did it make any noises clunks,grinding,rattles,smoke.The v6 is most definatly the most common,easy and cheapest motor to find about.

[Shaz77]

Thanks Warranty, Yeah i seem to type faster then i can think sometimes (not always a good thing :P) It never mattered before because it was his pride and joy, after we got her he did start thinking it may have been in an accident because certain things didn't line up and there was different colours of paint, he himself rear-ended a car while we had it too but she still drove fine. I think he was very disheartened when i blew it up, don't think he's ready to pour his heart & hard work back into her hopefully when i get started on it he might find his passion again and help too.

Justin35 when Shaun got it going he said the motor was shaking & blowing blue smoke, & he said the bearings were rattling (amazing how he'll answer now you guys want to know lol) I can pick up a motor out of a V6 engine out of a VR commodore fairly cheap aswell just gotta do some research on what's involved to put it into a VN.

We've had quite a few arguments in the past couple of weeks over the car but hubby is starting to come around now and if i ask something he's starting to give me the answer in laymans terms, which is a start. We've managed to agree to clean out the shed so it's completely bare, put the VN in pull the motor out and get her ready to paint, then we're going to throw a motor in get it, we've decided to get her looking fairly simple to start with to get it re-registered, nothing to fancy at all so they'll hopefully not pick on it as much. Then after it's registered she's going back in the shed to pull down to actually start getting her looking nice.
There's quite a few issues with her now that will be illegal we'll need to work on to get roadworthy, but he sat down and discussed it with me the other night about how we could fix those relatively cheap to be able to get her roadworthy again.
Once i start on the car im sure he'll be more helpful and actually get stuck right into her aswell

[bedman]

GeeZ Shaz...I wish my misses was as interested in cars as you are. Maybe he could open his eyes a bit and take the oppertunity to involve you and your son and make this a "family" project.! If everyone gets behind it ,it could be alot of fun....

[tmerivale]

if you got the money get an ls1 conversion for her and then watch your hubby get interested again lol, on a serious note as everyone else has been saying check out the forums and what not, i had a series 1 vn v6 motor for sale at the start of last year i think it was and yeah it went for like $60 something. sold it as i was doing a series 2 manual conversion (loved the manual and series 2 compared to the series 1 auto) theres always dumb sh!ts writing off their commies and lots that are getting wrecked so keep your eyes peeled and ring around. good luck anyway

[Shaz77]

Thanks Bedman, I've always loved cars just wish I understood them, in High School I was the first girl ever to take Automotive at the school, they even called my parents in for a "meeting" to discuss a better course choice, now my daughter and a heap of her friends do it. Problem is I was never taken seriously in class and the teacher always had me cleaning the parts for the guys to do the practical. Sadly you don't learn too much that way. Which is why i think i've dug my heels in pretty deep at the moment with the VN

Tmerivale, i don't have a lot of money to throw into the VN, because it's not on the road our money will be going into the VR wagon to keep her on the road and get her looking nice and respectable. I've already discussed an LS1 and you're right hubby sure did get interested..... TO PUT IT IN HIS CAR!!!! but at this stage i'm going to put either a buick motor back into her or maybe one of the ones out of a VR which are also relatively cheap aswell. Just need to keep an eye on how big a job it would be, taking out a motor and dropping in another one i think i could handle, however if i needed to replace wiring looms etc. I think i'd have trouble then.
What was the benefit of you putting in the series 2 with the manual? Hubby and his dad want me to put an auto in the VN but I use to love driving the manual & get bored with the Auto's after a while. They're telling me it's a massive job to put the manual in with another motor, but im in no hurry to get the VN back on the road just want to get her there eventually so i've got plenty of time to do the work if it's going to take a while.

[VR_Acclaim]

first off ur manual wont go onto a s2 the clutch ect is all different get aanoter vn motor,,,and its more work changing it to auto

[Shaz77]

Awesome thanks VR_Acclaim I'll work on another Buick motor & thank you so much for the information about it being MORE work to change it to Auto.

Finally starting to see how much I'm being blind sighted. It's more from my father in law really. He's of the view you go buy a car, you service it and leave it. The notion of actually working on, restoring or adding additions to a car of any kind is pure idiocy. We have the VR wagon and have been making plans to get body kit, painted and tinted windows for starters and he is beside himself that we couldn't just buy a car with all of that already on it. He's also disgusted with us for not buying a "newer" model car, It's hard to explain to some people you like what you like, Hubby likes the VR's, I like the VN's and neither of us are real fans of the newer models and he can't understand why we wouldn't want a newer car and would prefer to work on our old ones. So I think alot of the B.S i'm facing is coming mainly from him.

I'm really glad to have un-bias advice here where I can actually start to see the truth and i'm starting to get super excited now and can't wait to get stuck into her
Thanks guys

[Warranty Void]

To be honest you probably could buy a VN or even a VT with all that already done to it for a couple of grand but where's the fun in that? As far as I know the motor in the VR should be the same as the VN, I thought the only big change was from Buick 3.8 to Ecotec 3.8, and that happened with the change from VR to VS. It would be a bit more work to put in an Ecotec motor but ultimately well and truly worth it. The ecotec has an extra 25 or so KW, nearly 150KW vs about 125kw for the Buick. ther would be a little bit of mucking around with wiring but not that much, you should have a talk to Shane at Commodore Frenzy Factory and he'll tell you what you'd need and give you a price on installation depending on whether you and hubby bolt in the motor or they do it.
As far as the auto being easier, I suppose they mean to put in a motor and box at once, you already have all the bits to swap onto an auto motor to make it suitable for the manual box, maybe they are referring to the flywheel (that bolts to the crank and has the clutch bolted to it rather than the hydraulic torque conerter on the back of an auto motor) having a different bolt pattern on one crank, again ask Shane or Aaron at Com Frenzy. Fight to keep that manual box!

[bedman]

Good on ya Shaz....Keep at it. Do us a favour, when you get your car mobile again, run over that grumpy old bugger (father inlaw) will ya? HA HA

[Shaz77]

Thanks Warranty,
It was actually the massive fights and arguments we had because I wanted to keep the manual that has led to me doing up the VN. I wanted to put the manual into the VR, but seeing as the auto is changing smoothly and isn't slipping hubby doesn't want to fiddle with it and I can understand that aswell. But at the same time I want a car that I'm comfortable driving & love with a passion.

I have been looking at VT's and they're around the $3,000 mark and you're right I could get one of those but we looked at them before we bought the VR and it wasn't our cup of tea (although as I see them on these forums looking a little less stock, they are growing on me) But as you said where is the fun in that

I've found an Ecotec motor on Ebay $50 bid or $100 buy out, it only has 16 hours left but was unsure what was involved in putting it in. I spoke to Shaun about it and his answer was simply "anything's possible" but that wasn't telling me if it was worth doing.

The Ebay description reads: WAS RUNNING VERY WELL WHEN PULLED OUT OF THE CAR, A LITTLE BIT DIRTY AND MAY HAVE SOME OIL LEAKS, BUT THERE WAS NEVER ANYTHING VISIBLE ON THE GROUND.
I've been a bit dubious about buying a motor without seeing it actually going, where as with this one for that price if it doesn't go then it just doesn't go it's not a big deal for 50 or 100 bucks.

I think once we get the VR sorted out Shaun was actually going to go down to Commodore Frenzy Factory in a couple of months anyway pick up some odds and ends for his wagon so I'll have a chat to them while im down there.

Thanks so much for your wisdom it made perfect sense even to a layman like myself :P

[Warranty Void]

The Ecotec is much nicer than the Buick, more power and torque and uses less fuel, much smoother running, many more bolt on hot up bits for it too. If you're going to keep the car for years then it's worth the extra $$ and effort. I wish my VP V8 was manual, I incrementally spent 1200 on the auto box at the start of the year, I'd have had a manual in it if I'd known what it was going to add up to.
You're doing the smart thing to find out all you can before starting work, you'd be amazed how much difference it makes to people's attitude if you know what you want and can be specific with questions.
If you're happy to put in a bit of time and effort you can do so much, check out the "how to" threads and there's one floating around where a guy painted his car with a foam roller and marine lacquer, it sounds like the start of a joke but the result was pretty awesome. Even something like pulling out the seats and console and cleaning the carpet with a spray on cleaner or putting the seat material through a good wash will make a heap of difference, that's something you can do in a weekend for a bit of experience.
Let us all know how you go.

[Shaz77]

I have literally lived in the how to section on the forums, My problem is I like most of the ideas in there but also understand sometimes less is more. So I need to really be careful in what I do decide to do the car. I look at all of them and think to myself "oh i could do that in a day" or "that's a weekend job I could do", Which ultimately when all said and done might over do the whole car and just not flow properly in the overall look of the car.

I have seen the how to on painting the car with the roller and I too thought it was a joke, clicked expecting a good old laugh and my jaw dropped. After reading that post and visiting his website and every other link he had there and reading it thoroughly I was sold. Went to Shaun completely serious and told him I was going to paint the car myself. I got the usual responses "it's a lot of work", "you gotta know how to prep", and a heap of other questions and recommendations until I got this question: "Do you know how to spray a car" to which i replied im not spraying it I'm going to paint it with a roller and some yacht paint.
It took him a good 10 minutes to stop laughing, wipe the tears streaming down his face and catch his breath again before he could answer me. He thought I was having him on, I finally got him to look at the post and websites and eventually he said "well if you're prepared to dedicate yourself and put in the effort to prep it properly then give it a go, just don't expect it to work out like that first time round" So we are going to paint the car using that method & do it before we put the engine in so we can do the engine bay aswell. (hate cars that are painted and don't do the engine bays).

So the engine is now on the back burner for a while. So here is the plans at this stage (possibly not in this order but you'll get the idea):
1. Pull engine out.
2. Start body work to get it smooth and prepped for painting
3. Paint the car
4. Fix Interior:
* Mostly black interior by changing roof lining which needs replacing anyway
* Dye Dash etc. Black with a little colour coding (not sure what colour)
* Racing seats if not maybe those leather over the standard seats (from these guys Ultimate Auto Trim - Home)
* Looking at some statesman back seats customised to fit into the wagon so they still lay down but will be more comfy
* Black Carpet
* Change LED's to break up the black interior, not sure where though, just want enough to break up the black but not over do it, possibly dash area mainly.
* Other odds and ends as I come across them no doubt :P
5. Look at maybe a different exhaust system
6. Different Mags on it
7. Put in an Ecotech motor and look at minor performance enhancements to it.

Will probably do alot of the interior changes whilst doing up the body, just to break it up a bit and keep motivation going

I'm in no hurry to get this back on the road, I want to do it with my 8 year old son Rhys who is crazy mad for cars. I've spoken to him and he's super excited to be starting the car and has asked me "If I help do the car mum can I have it when I can drive". Not sure he'll be wanting to drive it when he's 18 but if he's serious when the time comes I probably will hand it over to him if he's going to put in the effort to work on it and restore it aswell, then he has a right to have it too. For this reason I'd only be looking to do minor performance changes to it so that it would still be legal for him to drive on P-Plates aswell as safe enough that it wont add extra stress & sleepless nights to me worrying about him :P And also if when he's 18 he doesn't want it I cant really be driving around a super souped up performance car looking like an I don't know what, when i'm 40 (Well I could and probably would but my kids might kill me)

[Warranty Void]

There's nothing cooler than a mum in a souped up rear drive manual aussie car.
Embarassing your kids helps them to build character. Personally I go with singing made up on the spot commentaries about whatever we're doing and making stupid dad jokes at their friends.

[Shaz77]

There's nothing cooler than a mum in a souped up rear drive manual aussie car.
Embarassing your kids helps them to build character. Personally I go with singing made up on the spot commentaries about whatever we're doing and making stupid dad jokes at their friends.

Yeah Shaun does that to them already, Unless it's a boy who's wanting to talk to our daughter then he shows them the baseball bat :P

As for embarrassing them I think they've had their fair share of that. I blew up the VN after going on a shopping spree and I'd spent nearly all of our savings on new shoes and clothes for the kids and the VN blew up on the way home. So we didn't have a whole lot of money to get another car so we ended up buying a Magna wagon for $1,000 and my daughter who is nearly 15 has always laid down in the car because she's so embarrassed to be in it. So the poor bugga's have had their fair share of red faces from me.

It was a big come down for them considering the VN use to look good, sound good with the stereo system and go hard so to go from that down to a slow 4 cylinder magna they took it pretty hard. They've been so excited now Shaun has bought the VR wagon even though it's just a standard VR, no tinted windows or stereo system or anything they're glad to have a "cool" car again

I have been doing more reading though and I do like the idea of boosting the engine up a little, I guess time will tell and see if my mother's instincts kick in or if my love for cars takes over. Problem is If i start I know i'll always want more. Then I can see me not parting with it when Rhys is 18

[mischa]

Heres somthing that might help,

V6 Crankshaft Info

That will help you work out what gearboxes will fit, if you got a S2 VN there the same up to the last of the VR's engine wise. VS's are ecotec and the S1 VN engine has different cranks auto to manual.

[Shaz77]

Thanks Mischa,
I've got a 88 series 1 VN manual, Thanks so much for that link I've been reading a little bit about crankshafts and different flywheels etc for different motors so i'll hunt through that link and familiarise myself with it inside and out

I've had a massive breakthrough today though. My husband AND his dad both took me seriously AND actually helped me work on the car for about an hour. I started working on it pulling pieces off it and my father in law came over and started what i thought was going to be his usual, saying things like you'll never move those bolts on your own you're not strong enough to budge them (probably got a point i only weigh 31 kilos) but I thought it would start his usual rant BUT instead he continued to say here let me loosen them for you.

We've also been arguing for 2 weeks about where the speed resistor is on our VR wagon for the climate control. I'd read these forums and knew where it was he thought it was behind the glove box and so did his mechanic and he even went to Holden who told him to pull the dash out to get to it behind the glove box. It's been a major drama for a fortnight while I continued to argue with all of them it was under the wiper blades in under the black plastic. Today my father in law even said to me "Hey Shaz grab those tools we'll go see if that resistor is under that plastic" Thank goodness it was and thank goodness for these forums where i'd read it because he's whole attitude today changed towards me AND the VN.

Our VR wagon needs a new rear wiper motor we were going to pull it out of the VN to put into the VR and he told me If I'm going to do the VN up, then leave the parts alone and not to go pulling parts off it to put on the VR. So It's been an amazing day for me and I'm really hoping it lasts. It just felt really good to have their support, to work with them and have them involve me in things and ask my opinion.

So things are looking up