Converting to gas (VP Berlina)
Hey,
Just wondering, how much would it cost to convert my VP Berlina LX ('92) V6 Auto to gas? Would it be worth it? Apart from the cost, what would be the disadvantages?
C.
Posting aimlessly ..
u probably wouldnt see much change out of $2500
but inside of 2 years ... you'll have pretty much made your $2500 back
and its all money in your pocket from there
downsides .. uhmm ... might lack a little guts here and there.. and a pain in the ass filling up at the servo compared to normal petrol . with all the screwing and shit. and cold burns .. etc
Local mechanic who specialises in LPG fitting up here recently quoted me $2700 for the conversion - $700 of which was just for the computer to run it !! He advised I could expect about the same economy as petrol. The system he installs automatically switches from petrol for start-up to LPG for normal running. It comes with a manual overide so you can select petrol if you want.
Here is the killer for me - anyone who reckons that it will take 3-5 years to get your money back is dreaming. With fuel prices rocketing from 95c to 140c in the last 6 months, while LPG has remained about 38-45c, at this rate it will be possible to get your costs back inside 2 years, as SOS has said. And that is if petrol stays at 140c / litre for the next 2 years bwahahaha lucky to see 2 MONTHS. When it jumps to $2 per litre ( and its not far away), then you will likely see your costs recovered inside 12 months.
BTW, fuel in Broome at the moment IS $2 per litre, lpg about 98c .......
cheers
Dave
Now thats just jolly. I assume that somehow with all the conversions going on these days, fuel companies will manage to come up with an excuse for an lpg cost rise, somewhere in the 80c bracket I'm guessing.
Was it just me or did some politician state that petrolium was going to fall back within the 80c per litre bracket again, after all the hype is over...aparantly what he's said in the past has happened as well.....But I can't see it happening.
did your guy give you any details about brands / manufacturers so I could have a look around down hear, the kit sounds good but I am having trouble finding details to do comparisons.
I am assuming there a good and cheap and nasty conversions available. I of course would prefer the good
Posting aimlessly ..
all gas conversions must be certified to a nationally recognised criteria, and then checked over.
all gas cylinders must be installed correctly and must be re-approved every so often. (someone will correct me on this) but i think its 5 or 10 years?
its not so much as finding a cheap and nasty conversion kit, its more about finding quality workmanship. next time your at the petrol station just ask the people around you filling up their cars with gas (and a huge grin at us buggers paying $1.50 for the rich stuff) ask em if thye did the changeover themselves, ask em if they're happy with it, ask em if they've had problems, then ask em where they got it done.
In relation to the trip meter and all that.....
Currently the computer on my dash tells me how many k's until empty, how many litres of fuel I've used, immediate fuel consumption and average fuel consumption. Am I able to still use these features if I'm using gas?
What happens re. the fuel guage? How do I know how much gas I have and petrol at the same time?
When changing fuel types, how do you do it? A switch on the dash somewhere? I don't really want a hole cut in the front of my car to put something like that im.
Thanks
im not to sure about the gas being hooked up to the trip computer but there
generally is a button mounted somewhere on ur dash ( stuck on, not put in a cut out hole, in my case at least) and it will have a light display, like a guage telling you how much in the tank.
Spoon?
Aren't full gas setups better than duel fuel? From what I've been told they will get alot more power and are more efficent. Because they are able to tune the car specifically for gas not both.
Sean
Hey mate, i got a Vk Berlina on Gas, and let me just say, im a young fella (18yrs old) and its one of the best things ive done, petrol prices are never a problem, It takes me about 20-25 bucks to fill a tank, i mean at todays petty prices 25 bucks gets about 1/4 tank...id keep it on Dule fule, just for the factor that you can use LPG if u just want to cruze around/Drive to work/ Long distantces, stuff like that and you can change it to Petrol if u want to get more proformane out of your car .. eg Racing/Burnouts/Drifting stuff like that i really would look into it...You can go to www.Bpautogas.com.au to give u more information Lemme know how u go,
Cheerz Sean,
p.s I ONLY ever full my car up with LPG at BP servo's I have found that the mix of LPG is better..gives u more power,
Drifting in a front wheel drive, is like going to maccas for an apple, Possible but pointless
that is a good point, when i had my old torana on gas and filled up at BP it felt some what better. thought that was just my imaginationOriginally Posted by patullose
I don't think we will ever see fuel below $1 per litre again. Once its been up around the 1.40 point, people will be happy to see it *drop* back to 1.20........its a bloody joke really, they are selling it at the equivalent of $85 per barrell, when it is actually around $65 per barrell at the moment
I have booked my VN in for an LPG conversion, it will be done in a couple of weeks, so I will let everyone know how it goes, brands etc ( I am not sure what 'brand' is going in , but the mechanic is an accredited LPG installer).
It is computer-controlled, apparently 'talks' to the stock ECU, and automatically switches between petrol and gas as/when required. There is also a manual overide switch for those embarrasing moments when you run out of *gas* :my:
The 'guage' is a row of LED's, but I have also been told that you can have a switchable stock fuel guage if required, to read both tanks off the stock guage (better get it working reliably first)
Straight LPG is better for older vehicles without ECU's and injectors - basically you replace the entire carby with an LPG mixer - its more efficent for older vehicles - dual-fuel setups are fine for injected vehicles ( by and large - there will always be the odd exception.)
I am really looking forward to my first fill-up at 45.8c/litre !!!
cheers
Dave
Posting aimlessly ..
yeah valid points there gosling ... theres not a chance in hell that the oil companies will ever drop the price below $1 - $1.10 now that its up that high..
they're enjoying the billions of our dollars they're making every year from it too much.
if you were a petrol giant and were selling something as necessary as fuel for such a high price.. would you ever want to lower it? i know if it were me running the show, i'd be interested in making as much money as i could..
ASSHOLES!
they have us over a *barrell* really
Something else to consider - petrol in Oz is close to the 2nd-cheapest on the planet at the moment. In England, it costs over 1 pound per litre ( that is the equivalent of about $2.40 per litre
People I know from England cannot believe that we are *only* paying about 55 pence per litre ( in their money) at the present time ( ie when we are paying $1.40 litre...) they choked on their Cornflakes when I told them it had only recently *rocketed* through the $1 per litre mark ( ie about 45 pence per litre ) - they reckon we have it really good !!!
cheers
Dave
Posting aimlessly ..
yeah mate .. i know what ya mean
check back a few pages .. i posted a very similair tihng .. even on european terms .. .brits have the best of it for petrol prices . throughout europe its close to $3 a litre now
3 bucks a litre ??!!!!
No wonder turbo-diesels are so popular over there....even my old man cannot believe that diesel is now cheaper than unleaded ( as it was waaaaay back in the '80's)...he has a new Patrol.....
Do they make a diesel coversion for a Buick V6 ?????????
I use to pay about 1.20 per litre for avgas when I raced bikes, and thought that was expen$ive !!!
cheers
Dave
How does the price of fuel in England compare to the level of incomes? A direct comparison using exchange rates can sometimes distort things. Apparently a valid measure is to compare prices between countries using a commodity that incorporates a lot of different components. A Mars bar (don't laugh) is apparently good. We are paying about one Mars bar per litre atm, so what is it, in 'Mars bars', elsewhere?
Re. trip computer use on gas, the values for the trip computer are calculated from a history of injector pulse widths and the fuel tank level. While the functions will still work when running on LPG, they will be valid for petrol, not gas. Using the LPG tank sender switched through the standard gauge will help. I prefer to see how much of both fuels I have at any given time, hence I also have a separate (LED bar graph) LPG gauge.
"It is computer-controlled, apparently 'talks' to the stock ECU, and automatically switches between petrol and gas as/when required. There is also a manual overide switch for those embarassing moments when you run out of *gas* "
Not as embarrassing as running out of petrol. At least you can switch across and be on your way.
"When changing fuel types, how do you do it? A switch on the dash somewhere? I don't really want a hole cut in the front of my car to put something like that in."
The switch can be mounted virtually anywhere, it just has to be clearly marked as to which fuel it is operating on. If it bothers you, I would suggest mounting it in an easily replaced trim component such as next to the A/C switch or in the PRNDL surround.
Holes have to be drilled in sheet metal to mount the tank, filler neck and lines anyway. I'm not sure what various installers do to prevent corrosion at these points but they almost certainly don't repaint around them. Maybe just a splash of fish oil, if you're lucky?
10 years is the tank retesting interval.
LPG regos cost a little more too and it is necessary to find a workshop licensed to do them, which may be less convenient.
If converting an IRS equipped VP-VS, there may be difficulties in using the APA bracketed tank as the forward mounting points would require bolts to pass through a sheet metal channel to which the rear subframe bolts.
Running a full LPG tank and petrol tank adds to the load on the rear suspension = instant lowering job. That may or may not be desirable. It doesn't bother me, nor is it particularly noticeable anyway. I believe that the factory approved conversions incorporated uprated rear springs.
resident bush mechanic
straight out no
Very valid point - this has also been expressed using Big Macs, as you can get them nearly everywhere as well. I don't know what a Mars Bar costs in England ? or a Big Mac..... hmm , will do some digging about this....
Good advice - this is why I recently installed a set of Pedders H/D springs in the rear, in anticipation of the LPG tank. ( Now that was an easy job, if anyone wants to install rear springs, it takes about 10 minutes
cheers
Dave
Does anyone have a 'donut' type tank in their boot? It replaces where the spare wheel is kept.
Ok, so basically I can see both levels of fuel at the one time - the original guage for petrol and another for lpg (LED bar graph).
With the extra tank for lpg, how do you fill it up (where's the fuel cap)?
The neatest way to attach the filler is to screw or rivet a plate behind the existing fuel filler flap that holds both the new LPG filler and the (slightly relocated) petrol filler. This requires that the existing hole in the rear quarter around the filler neck be enlarged a little bit. Less neat (I think) is adding the LPG filler into a separate hole through the rear quarter, which can be on either side of the car.
Could you provide a pic of this by any chance?
I'll see what I can do. I'm low tech so I will have to borrow a 'phone or camera first
Spoon?
thanx for answering the question. I mean "no" really explained why and made it perfectly clear that duel fuel is better.
Care to give a reason for your statement or are you just going to be a know it all d!ckhead?
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