Memcals

[greenfoam]

Ok anyone that wants to be burning their own memcals a week from now, ask questions here.

Download this
http://www.supportfitness.com/mark/t...oFree_v400.exe

All These
ftp://ftp.diy-efi.org/pub/gmecm/bin_...27808%20%205D/

This
http://www.moates.net/files/3)%20Bin...ersion%205.ecu

This
http://www.moates.net/files/3)%20Bin...rsion%202d.ecu

Buy one of these
http://cgi.ebay.com/29C256-Enhanced-...QQcmdZViewItem

And some good 28 pin IC sockets and a soldering iron with a pointed tip (file works)a butter knife and some solder


That's all you need and that's todays lesson over

[rattattack1313]

Thanx, Greenteach !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Doctor Bob]

lol then spend 3 or 4 years learning what to change

Rob

[wildss]

yeah thats all we need custom tunes by morons lol
should see some cheap commies for sale

[greenfoam]

If you don't want to learn I can't make you, It's 20 year old tech and all the tools have been made so it's pretty simple. You can make it as easy or hard as you want, if all you want is to change the spark curve for premium and a bit more juice for a night at the quarter mile or some more spark advance down low to stop your lumpy cam wobbling around, getting it running better with your breathing mods, you can learn that on the first day and that's about as far as a chip from a speed shop goes anyway.

I was hoping people would add to each others calibrations test them out in different cars and generally share information and have fun with it. Fred and myself have been swapping them around in emails for a few months, it really helps. I had quite a few flaws in my VR converted to VN chips that I hadn't noticed at all and it was wasting my time, Fred picked them up straight away. So it was cool having two sets of eyes and a different mind to look at them. Anyones welcome to any memcal I've thought up and probably Fred's too and we both have memcals that are definatly better than stock so it shouldn't take long to pick up. If you had to learn it by yourself it might take a few months but we are going to help.

Ok so if you want to ask questions regarding ONLY retro VN-VR memcals ask here if you don't want to ask, don't ask

P.S V8 guys have the most to gain doing their own memcals : )

[Doctor Bob]

i will give advice to anyone as you know,
best advice i can offer is learn how the system works completely before trying to alter things, it will cut down on the time.

Rob

[burnz]

ha ha after it's all said and done the petrol engine is still 20yrs behind a diesel

[VL400]

Its finally good to see a few ppl having a go at modifying and burning memcals themselves. There are many US based message boards with heaps of general information that can help for aussie ECUs, but there is nothing like advice for the real thing.

If you really want to learn what is going on to be able to make changes correctly, reading and understanding the source code is is the only way. Now if anyone has done some HC11 programming (or wants to learn) and is keen to comment the ECU code let me know, i have a few unfinished hacks (VN and VR) that when done will be made public. All the hacks re-compile into the original binary and work correctly. With that in mind it is possible to make any changes to the code you want

[greenfoam]

VL 400, I've tried to dissasemble it a few times over the months but don't think I've ever got it right, what program does best the job of it. I wasn't even exactly sure which cpu it runs until now that you just told me , that will help heaps !

[vinnywelsh]

I work with computers everyday, if its one thing i have learnt about technology, if it aint broke dont fix it, i will be leaving re-mapping mecals to the pro's lol

still.... the liitle geek inside me is screaming out

[VL400]

There are many HC11 programs to use however i find these work very well together...
Use m6811dis to disassemble http://www.dewtronics.com/m6811dis.html
Then as6811 to re-assemble http://www.dewtronics.com/cgi-bin/asxxxx.pl?
And finally bincvt to convert the s19 file from the assembler back into a binary http://www.techedge.com.au/utils/bincvt.htm some eprom burners will do this for you prior to burning, i do it so i can comapre the original bin to my re-assembled commented version or when simulating new code routines i add.

If u get stuck making a control file, PM your email address i will send you one to have a look at.

The processor is made for GM by motorola and is very similar to a HC11, while it is not exactly the same (internal memory locations are mapped differently) all the mnemonics are the same which means most (if not all) HC11 compilers will work ok.

[greenfoam]

Thanks for all that VL400, I'll investigate all that tonight. I've just been for a drive in my totaly fixed VR for VN calibration, probably the best one I've ever made, just might be able to fix the first couple thousand revs on a hard launch but it's pretty gurgley on the over run out of gear even on my stock exhuast, (I like to have that) and is running fairly lean down the road, should get me back into over 600 ks a tank land

[Frd_thmsn]

Thanks for starting this thread Greenfoam.

Thanks to your advice and input I have made several great memcals, my latest gives me fantastic fuel economy around 700K per tank , 90 % highway.

I don,t take the view "if it ain,t broke , don,t fix it".

There are a lot of modifications that can improve the standard memcal.

You have to remember that the factory make memcals to suit a very wide range of conditions , a one size fits all mentality, but we all drive differently, use different fuels, live at different altitudes , have mods on our cars etc. All of these can be improved by modifying your memcal.



If modifying things was left to the professionals, the internet as we know it wouldn,t have been created, there would be no need for add ons for Windows XP. Where would Linux be?.

So to the people who don,t agree with us modifying memcals and don,t have any constructive advice to give , please leave those that are interested the chance to learn and play. For us it,s fun and a hobby.
It,s really no different to what we did in the old days, changing jets on carbs.
And changing the springs for advance curves.
And with the price of fuel the way it is , we have a chance to improve our wallets.

For those that believe the engineers at GM programmed the perfect memcal for the VN , consider these.

Why was auto and manual memcals in the VN the same, but different in the VR? I know the VR had an electronic controlled geabox.
There should be different characteristics for manuals and autos, a manual drives a lot differently to a auto and should have different settings in the memcal.

Why does the VR memcal have a "lean cruise" mode thus giving better economy at cruise speed, why can,t we add this to the VN memcal?

There is a lot to be gained by re programming memcals, both for the car and your own personal knowledge .

I can,t see how the professionals will be missing out on earnings by what Greenfoam is doing here , I for one was never going to buy a modified memcal
from them anyway .

[Doctor Bob]

Well said but i think you missed my point, yes its relatively easy to do but its also very simple to stuff things up.
the best advice i can offer is baby steps until you see what your changes do.
As i have said, as a professional, i will offer advice when needed.

Cheers Rob

[greenfoam]

Nice chip Fred

[vn2nv]

where are some tutorials on programming memcals for the VN commo and anything to do with the ecu?

[HDT_aero]

dont you need a uv eraser aswell??

[Chuff]

Question?

When modifying fuel maps, you can monitor the A/F Ratio via WinALDL and that should tell you where the maps might need some adjusting. If attempting to alter the spark advance table, I assume you'd want to run as much spark advance as possible. In order to do this do you need a knock sensor to monitor the system in a similar fashion as you would with the A/F Ratios, or is there another method you could use to establish the best advance to use?

Thanks.

CATCH!

[greenfoam]

Vn2Vn, If you make your way slowly through each link on this page even though it's based on American ECU's (very similar) you'll get a very good idea about the Holden setup

http://thirdgen.org/techbb2/showthre...hreadid=288763

Anyway read all that first.

HDT_aero, only if you use retro eproms, I use electronicly erasable ones, that erase every time you burn them (Atmel 29c256). BUT if your a cheapskate like me you'll just leave the old ones out in the sun for a week and they will be blank (the ozone hole has a use for something :P ), I've got heaps of them so I can afford to wait.

Chuff, Fred has a little design to tell him when the knock sensor is working, but you can disable the knock sensor inside the memcal and go by feel if you want, I don't advance mine enough to really have to worry about it, It might show up a couple kw more power on a dyno right at very high revs with more advance than I use, but that's not going to help if the guy with better fuel ratio over the first 3000 rpm flogged you by a car length off the line, that's how I look at it anyway :0. You can get really nice air/fuel meters for about 400-600$ but I'm not that serious, I've got my stop watch my foot, a few engine simulator programs, the feel in my hands, and my eye on the petrol bowser, it's enough for me to go better than stock

[Chuff]

Thanks for that Greenfoam, but I've got a V8 with no knock installed.

Regardless, you've now confused me. I was under the impression that once the A/F Ratios were correct, you would then try and setup as much Spark Advance as possible, providing you don't get detonation, as this would give the best power & economy. If this is the case, then knowing when the engine knocks would be crucial, and a knock sensor would sense knocking way before you would notice by either feel or sound.

Or am I way off?

Thanks.

CATCH!

[HDT_aero]

HDT_aero, only if you use retro eproms, I use electronicly erasable ones, that erase every time you burn them (Atmel 29c256). BUT if your a cheapskate like me you'll just leave the old ones out in the sun for a week and they will be blank (the ozone hole has a use for something :P ), I've got heaps of them so I can afford to wait.

does that really work leaving em in the sun i got 3 spare

[greenfoam]

does that really work leaving em in the sun i got 3 spare

Yes : ) take the sticker off so you can see in the window and put them outside in the sun, takes a bit longer in the Winter down here in the South but faster in the Summer. Check it after a week and if it's blank leave it another day or two just to make sure.

Are you talking about having 3 memcals spare? because if that's the case you probably should wrap up the rest of them memcal in somthing to protect it from the elements like tape or something leaving the window exposed:P. Better to unsolder the memcal and stick a socket in there so you can leave your memcals in the sun seperate from the memcal. To unsodler the memcal you take your butter knife (unsolder the knock sensor board first so you can access the eprom easily). Then stick the knife under the eprom and go from leg to leg melting the solder starting at the legs near the knife and going into the middle of the eprom all the while putting a little bit of lift on the knife, then go the other end and do the same, after a few runs the eprom will come out. When you solder the socket in you can use a fair bit of solder and just about fill up the little wells around the legs of the socket, if you do that with the memcal laying on its side the solder will run down towards the middle of the memcal and makes a nice looking job of it. All my memcals have been socketed allready otherwise I would take some pitures of this in action, but it's pretty easy really

[greenfoam]

Thanks for that Greenfoam, but I've got a V8 with no knock installed.

Regardless, you've now confused me. I was under the impression that once the A/F Ratios were correct, you would then try and setup as much Spark Advance as possible, providing you don't get detonation, as this would give the best power & economy. If this is the case, then knowing when the engine knocks would be crucial, and a knock sensor would sense knocking way before you would notice by either feel or sound.

Or am I way off?

Thanks.

CATCH!

Chuff, that's the general theory, but there is a fairly large area when you will get around about maxiumum power, I've only made a couple of V8 memcals so I haven't tested out what they like (with the V6 I've tried crazy amounts of advance with the spark retard turned off and ended up pinging and going slow : )) 26-29 degrees is pretty good on the V6's, 32 seems to still go ok but it's certainly no quicker in a straight line than than 28, my fastest ever memcal had a total advance of 28 (most of the rev range was 26). Well back to the V8, The memcal my brother runs at the moment has a spark map like this in his VS, I'm sure it could be much better but it does run very well like this, I started with the 185kw VS chip, changed it a fair bit though (max advance is around 31 degrees at the redline), Remeber I'm not expert at this I haven't been doing it all that long

http://usera.imagecave.com/greenfoam/v8.map.JPG

One more thing, that VS is not running a knock sensor either but never runs anything other than Premium and doesn't ping, (there's an option to enable or disable the knock sensor in the program, stock Holden=disabled, HSV=enabled : ) )

[greenfoam]

I forgot to mention when playing with eproms and other electronics don't run up and down on the carpet with your socks on before you do it :P static electricty can be a bad thing, never busted anything myself but they say it's possible, just be carefull grabs things on the edges not on the legs etc : ) just common sense

[Frd_thmsn]

Don,t be a cheapskate Get an eprom eraser while you,re at it .

I only have 2 memcals, and I,d rather wait 5 minutes for it to be erased than one week in the sun, anyway if I left it outside , either a goanna would knock it off or the whole thing would melt, darn it,s been hot here lately 37 degrees.

If you can get hold of some spare memcals , would make life easier, I can only try out one change at a time.

They say eproms deteriorate with each erase, I,ve done mine a dozen or so times and all seems well.

Can,t wait for the next installment in the tutorial.