vn v6 alternator wiring splice?

[PUSHIN]

first of thanks for reading and any help, i changed the cables from my battery today, battery to body, engine earth, starter cable, alternator cable, i found a splice in the alternator cable a foot from the battery, so one end goes to the alternator, one to the battery, and one to a small box (seems to contain fuses..) BENEATH the big fuse box.. so i called the battery joint, they told me to connect the wire from the small box, to the battery where the alternator wire connects to the battery to save splicing. so i did so, turned the car on, battery light was on and wouldn't turn off, let the car run for five minutes, turned it off, did the same again, ran for five mintues, turned it off, started again, ran for 10 mins or so, and then turned off. battery didn't die at all but the light remained on the whole time, my question is, would the wire from the fuse box connecting to the battery be a wire for the battery light, and the fact that i didn't splice the wire, and connected it to the battery, result in the light constantly being on? and if so, will the battery still charge or will it die whilst driving? or does anyone know what that cable coming for the small box that WAS spliced to the alternator cable is actually for if my assumptions are wrong? (this was the only thing i could really think of.. thinking i'm probably wrong but worth a shot..) any help would be much appreciated, thanks everyone!

[drewVHSS]

When you look at an alternator there's 3 wire outputs on your model.
1 big one, power feed.
1 Plug that looks the same as the plugs that go onto your injectors.
This small plug has 2 wires. 1. The battery light wire you're having a problem with, the other goes across to the battery to sense load so the alternator knows when to give charge.

As the Indicator wire doesn't connect to the battery or the small mains fuse box, i'm guessing when you redid your main heavy duty wiring, you've either unplugged that 2 wire plug or the Indicator wire has gotten damaged, with heat etc... engine bay wiring can break inside the sheath but look ok on the outside. Usual thing, everything works fine in the engine bay untill it's disturbed... years of heat, oil and solvents on the wiring makes it really unhappy when it's touched, moved, disturbed etc....
recheck/replace the I wire from the Alternator

Cheers
Drew

[PUSHIN]

Cheers mate, i actually had a bit of an inspection of both of the smaller wires coming from the alternator after removing them from the plastic casing (replaced all plastic casings as they were what, 21 years old? little bit frail lol..) but the white wire that traced back to the battery, and the brown wire going back to the fuse box seemed to be okay..

You wouldn't have any clue what the wire that goes to the fuse box that was spliced from the alternators power feed wire would be? as thats the only thing i've really done different and as i stated the other wires seemed to be okay, as i said, thats the only thing i've done different, which was by removing the splice and connecting it from the fuse box, directly to the battery rather then to the wire between the battery and alternator.. (it was the same guage wire as the alternators power feed wire, not one of the thin ones for the battery light wire and the one to the battery..)

Just yeah, doing my head in as i was concerned the small wires might be the problem, however i replaced the plastic casings, and the wires seemed fine on inspection, so i've HALF.. ruled that out (obviously it's still a possibility.. but it SEEMED okay..) and yeah.. thinking more toward this wire i chose not to splice.. wouldn't have any clue what it actually does?

Sorry to be a pain in the ass, and i'm not trying to seem like i'm ignoring your advice, just as i stated i've sussed the thinner wires out and they seemed fine.. and i also downloaded about 20 wiring diagrams and racked my brain to the sh** to try work out what the wire was for. but yeah.. just trying to yeah.. sorry >.< lol thanks for all the help, much appreciated!!

EDIT; Series 1 vn too by the way..

[drewVHSS]

The big fat wire originally should have gone both to the battery and the fuse.
The S wire goes also to either the battery or the fuse (sense wire to sense electrical load on the system for alternator to kick in the juice)
So unless without having those two wires spliced the alternator isn't sensing the load properly (which i doubt) I'd be more inclined to belive one of the two small wires have broken internally or maybe the Mains fuse has accidently blown but looks ok on visual (can happen sometimes... fuse looks ok but has a hairline crack in it)

[PUSHIN]

i'll suss out the fuse, and i'll have another good look of what i can see of these small wires, have a tinker around see if i can piss the light off, but yeah i was thinking something along the same lines about the bigger cable, but as you said i doubted, just was the only thing i did different ande verything else looks okay O.o thanks very much for the input mate!

[PUSHIN]

okay so this is KIND OF away from the alternator splice, however the main reason i changed my battery cables was to ensure i had a proper connection everywhere, the wire i have is DEFINITELY thick enough to take needed current, however my battery light still comes on..

I have replaced; all battery cables (- to engine, - to body, + to alternator, + to starter) i changed the spade connecter that also runs from the battery to the alternator, and ran slightly heavier gauge wires from the regulator as the ones that were there had some broken insulation, possibly broken wire, etc. i also removed the regulator today and fitted new brushes, then reinstalled however the problem still persists, i have one wire to change over before i can rule out everything i've mentioned, but the wire that i half suspect runs the car with NO issues, so i cant see it being the caue of the battery light. i've also got two alternators, i removed the regulators from both and found the brushes in almost the exact same condition, so i replaced one set, i might try the other alternator tomorrow, but i've swapped alternators 3, if not four times in the last month, once or twice to see if the alternator was making a difference, and another time or two just for the hell of it when the light was still coming on, i'll swap the regulator to the other alternator tomorrow and put it in, and check the wire, but i highly doubt it will make a difference based on previous attempts.

battery is ~15 months old, going to get a tester onto it tomorrow to be sure she's got the correct current and whatnot, but i haven't drained the battery at all to the point of the car not starting or anything like that, but i'll be able to work out for sure wheather or not its part of the problem tomorrow.

If anyone knows of anything else i should investigate, it would be greatly appreciated if someone could point me in the right direction.

[Jxw]

the light on the dash doesn't mean the battery is flat. it is there to indicate the alternator is working.
if the car starts and runs then the battery is ok.
get a multimeter and check the battery voltage with the car off, what is the voltage? now start the car and check at the battery again, has the voltage increase to 13.5-14.5ish volts?
was it all working before you replaced the cables?
on the regulator plug (the black box with the 2 pin plug) are the contacts in the plug and on the regulator clean and not corroded?

[Not_An_Abba_Fan]

The first thing I would have done is to put the wire that removed back to the alternator feed wire. If the light goes out, then the small fuse box isn't a fuse box at all and is probably some kind of external regulator.

If the light remains, then it is not related to that wire and is probably a problem with the wiring you replaced, eg: a wire left off, an earth not connected properly or a battery that is indeed shot. Just because it starts the car doesn't mean a cell hasn't dropped and is drawing more current than the alternator can put out.

[PUSHIN]

okay, i appreciate the inputs, however except for the battery i cant think of anything because;

I did connect all of the cables properly, and i did splice the wire back in, i've now replaced all 3 wires running from the alternator AGAIN, including the another connector which the other wire was going to, i've made sure that every connection is solid, checked currents and everything, all of the wires are fine, none are damaged at all and are properly sending a current, both of the connectors which are connected to the wires coming from the regulator were changed, aswell as the earths, which i made sure i have done up correctly, as my engine earth was loose at one point (actually during the process of getting roadworthied, and it wasnt picked up.. -.- typical) and the car wouldn't start at times, (one of which right outside the joint that passed the roadworthy -.-) but i know they're all tight and properly connected. i changed the brushes in the regulators, i'm not looking at it right now, so i'm not 100% certain however i put alot of effort into checking the two regulators i had, i'm sure i would have noticed that.. (HOWEVER, pretty anal on the visual inspection to be 100%, not just i know i did that up tight, the problem was still there cant be it, so i will check the engine earth again, as i have had problems with it before, so i will check that but i know the earth to the body is solid, checked it yesterday, and yeah, already pretty sure the engine earth is tight but ohwell.)

And i've read somewhere before that the battery light coming on is just the alterantor engaging, however i've never seen it in anyone else's car, and it only flashes on briefly most of the time, and its funny that i can run my stereo, with headlights, etc at full blast for 5 minutes without the light engaging at all, however tonight, sitting in the drive through, no stereo, boom, battery light is on for half a second, gone for three, back on for 5, gone for 3, on for another half a second then didnt come back, is that REALLY normal..?? does anyone else who drives a vn see their battery light flash a couple of times on a daily basis? am i just being paranoid?

I also tested my battery, 12 on idle, 14 while running. (the meter used was an expensive electricians one, i wasn't doing it, my mate was, i saw the readings with my own eyes however there was no .5's or anything, just went to a 12, then 14.)

Only other odd thing i can think of, is i changed the globes in my dash cluster a few months back, because the light behind the temperature guage had stopped working, so as of tonight, its not working again, the ones that i pulled out looked YEARS old, plus i'd had them 2 years myself before it blew, yet this one got 4-5 months out of this one at most, couldnt be related to my battery light could it?

so except for the battery (as it was purchased and put into the car around january last year, maybe a month or two earlier) i cant really think of anything, i'll probably give the battery a change soon, and might just go the hack on changing every fuse i can find, see if anything changes, but other then all that has been stated that i have fixed etc, could there be anything else?

Thanks guys, inputs are much appreciated!! egh, bloody frustrating, but i guess one big thing would be can anyone verify if it IS normal for it to flash on every now and then to show the alternator engaging, well that will be a big releif. thanks guys!!

EDIT; there is only really one related wire that i haven't changed, bit hard to explain, but its one of the two wires from the regulator, not the one that runs into the connector then to the battery, but the other one with the double connector under the fuse box, i've changed that wire, from the regulator all the way up to the new connector but nothing past that, could it be a problem further along that line? also sorry for the elaborate detail, however i just figure the more i cover now, the less i'll have to cover later.

[Jxw]

hrm, so when testing the voltage was the alt light turning on and off and the voltage on the meter was staying @ 14V, wasn't fluctuating 12 to 14 as the light went on and off?
(ignore the .5 i mentioned earlier, just meant the voltage should be somewhere between 13.5 to 14.5 so 14 is fine)

if the charging voltage was stable at 14V and the light was on then i'd trace the brown wire from the regulator plug and make sure it's insulation isn't cracked and it's not shorting to the body/engine somewhere, all the reg does is normally ground that wire to turn the light on anyway, if you've used 2 regs with the same issue and the 4 contacts inside the alternator were clean and not worn out (slip ring etc).
Only time you should see the charge light illuminate is when you first turn the ignition on and the engine isn't running, as soon as the alternator starts spinning it should be off.


here's a quick test:
With the engine off
Unplug the 2 pin plug from the regulator.
Get a 12V test light, connect 1 end to the "L" pin on the reg, connect the other end of the test light to a 12V positive somewhere.
Get a piece of wire with a crocodile clip on each end, connect 1 to the "S" pin on the reg and the other to the main charging output of the alternator (make sure both ends are secure and can't fall off and short out).

Pretty much as soon as this is connected the light will light up.
Now start the car, the test light should go out, give it a couple of light revs and leave it run for a few mins, if the light stays off then it's probably a short in the wire going from the reg to the dash.
This may sound pointless but what is the charge warning lamp on the dash doing now? it should be off as it's no longer connected to the alternator.

[PUSHIN]

cheers mate!! the light was not turning on and off while testing the battery, it remained off the whole time, i only noticed it was turning on again tonight (did the work to it yesterday, and over different days through out previous months) noticed it while in the drivethrough, at an idle, no music etc.

I'll give this method a go tomorrow and see what i come up with, and post the results if i cant work it out for myself starting to think it will be the wire running back to the dash though, because im fairly certain the regulator i've put in and the alternator are alright, pretty certain the regulator wires back to both of the connecters (by the battery, and the twin under the fusebox) are making solid connections changed them both with heavier guage wire and everything, tested them before fitting and whatnot aswell so i'm sure its not shorting on the engine or anything. just thinking it will be between the connector under the fuse box and the dash somewhere, only place i havent changed wire yet. >.< fun, so eh, i'll have a play, see what i come up with!! cheers mate!!

[Jxw]

another thing, when you replaced the brushes, did you solder them in so they were only just in the hole and the spring was just visible when looking down past the brushes.
did it look like this?

you didn't push the brushes in to far and solder them so they wouldn't extend out far enough to contact the copper rings?

[PUSHIN]

nah mate i was worried about doing it incorrectly, so i had a good inspection and think about it first, made sure its right Cheers though mate! about to go suss this wire out now, going back to the dash, to see if i can find anything visually wrong with it, probably replace it anyway, if it doesnt help i'll have to go fetch a test light and whatnot to try what was stated above.

Cheers!

[PUSHIN]

*sigh* so i think i might have to do this another day, because i if i start, i have to finish, and it looks like it could be a bloody decent job just to do one little wire, so as i assumed, the wire i need to get to is rolled up with almost a full bloody reel of tape, fun. but does anyone know, specificly where the brown wire from the regulator plug ends? i'll assume it goes into my cluster somewhere, had a quick look at the wires that i could see that were going into my cluster, couldn't find it (not that i had a great look) but does anyone know from experience, where this wire goes? if the cluster, which plug am i looking at? but uh, came to mind as i was checking it all out.. (as i couldn't see any damaged wires under the dash, nor could i see how they would get damaged in the big heap they're in and whatnot) anyway, started thinking, could the blown temperature globe in the cluster, and the battery light occasionally flashing on, be an issue with the cluster? the odometer screen is starting to bleed a little, however i didn't think anything of it, but could this be a faulty cluster?? Cheers guys!

Edit: Just went and checked my engine earth too, still tight as the day i put it on, can't wiggle it at all. another thing ruled out

So a quick list of what i've changed so far, the wire from the + to starter, + to alternator, regulator to connector to +, regulator to connector under the fusebox, (both from the regulator, have had the wires changed from the plug through to the connectors, the connectors have also been replaced, aswell as the one going to the battery has new cable between battery and connector too), i have also changed - to engine and - to body, all have solid connections. have also changed brushes in alternator.
so this really only leaves the wire from the connecter under my fusebox that runs back to the cluster, the cluster itself?? (just trying to think of everything..) or possibly a fuse somewhere or something?? or, a further problem (somehow with both) alternators..?

Again, thanks alot for the help, appreciate it more then you can imagine! bloody thing's doing my head in a bit. -.- but i guess, everything i change means one more possibility down!!

[Not_An_Abba_Fan]

So, just to confirm, this only happened after you did your rewiring?

And the wire that you originally moved, you tried it the way it was and made no difference?

It has to be something you have missed then.

[PUSHIN]

uhm, no, the problem was there to begin with... i dont recall moving any wires without putting them back the way they were, there was the alternator splice, which the day i did it a different way, i went back to the splice it originally had and have had it spliced since. there isn't anything that i've missed. the problem was there to begin with, i changed the wires, changed some of the same ones again, including two connecters more recently, and the problem still continues. all of the wiring from the alternator is done correctly, making a good connection, earths are the same, connectors coming from the regulator wires are new and making good connections, i haven't missed anything as i've checked it all over atleast 30 times.

[Not_An_Abba_Fan]

The way your first post reads, it sounds like the problem only started after you moved that spliced wire to the battery.

Have you tried a totally different alternator to what you already have? The chances of two alternators doing the same thing is remote, but not unheard of.

[PUSHIN]

the problem was there before i moved the spliced wire to the battery, i was changing the cables because of the battery light coming on, and after it still continued to come on i spliced the wire back in.

I have tried two different alternators, but not a third, i'm thinking i'm going to try changing the alternator last, as one of the two i have has only seen a few months of operation since i purchased it from a wreckers, if both of the alternators have issues, i'm not wasting my time, nor money again at a wrecker with an alternator, i'll purchase a new one elsewhere. i might see if i can borrow one from a mate or something, provided i can find someone who is certain their alternator is perfect, and see if that is my problem.